Hi, I have a male 15 month old and I am really finding it very difficult to inculcate discipline of how to walk. He is forever pulling me in all directions, he's always on a leash. I have a friend who has had his and his father in laws hip bone broken by their Labrador, exactly in the same manner. My darling has had his training but he just would shoot off in all directions when I take him for walks. What to do? Regards, Anil
Re: How to walk Hello there Teaching a boisterous young labrador to walk nicely on lead can be difficult. I think it's harder if you don't have off lead time. No off lead time makes it harder for two reasons - you can't get rid of the excess energy your young dog has, and you have to allow him to sniff round for some of the time (which makes you seem inconsistent to the dog, it's easier and clearer if you have more black and white requirements about walking at heel and the dog has more freedom off lead). I found this book very helpful, which teaches a loose lead, allowing a dog to sniff, pee and poo on lead: http://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Dog-Pulls-What-Do/dp/1929242239
Re: How to walk Hi Anil, I had big pulling problems and had to start retraining loose lead walking from scratch. I used the following articles from the main site together with a front fastening harness and a head collar that I always call a halti but wasn't ...sorry that sounds confusing :-[ http://www.thelabradorsite.com/establishing-a-heel-position-for-your-labrador/ http://www.thelabradorsite.com/walking-with-your-labrador-at-heel/ http://www.thelabradorsite.com/walking-your-labrador-on-a-loose-lead/ There are plenty of other helpful articles too if you search loose lead walking / heel position It takes a lot of practice and consistency especially with an established puller,it's not easy and I sympathise enormously,good luck,don't give up,you will be able to make improvements with some training Angela
Re: How to walk We had the same problem with our dog, Pulling like mad and burning the skin on my hand. We started heel work with him around 3 months ago and he can now walk at heel even without his lead. The first thing we did was change his lead to a slip lead with a stopper, moving high up the dogs neck. When walking try getting the dog to focus on you, we made ours focus on our right hand (lead in left) and keep walking, if the dog pulls turn the other way swiftly and the dog will get a shck and think oh ur that way now (the stopper on the lead immitates a bite by mum which would happen in the wild). This method worked for us. I hope you guys can overcome this problem
Re: How to walk Just to say, some people (me included), but not everyone of course, thinks a slip lead should never be used on a dog that pulls. It's better, but still not ideal, if there are two stoppers, one that prevents the choke action.
Re: How to walk Hi Anlis , With respect your dog may have had training but have you , We had exactly the same problem when we got our dog at 18 months as a rescue we have been to a well respected Gun Dog trainer who showed us exactly what to do . But despite my wifes best efforts to begin with she has stopped been consistent when Jake is on the lead which results in him not paying any real attention to my wife when she walks him. I only walk him on my left side and he gets no more than few inches of lead when walking to heel , Your dog must have off lead exercise labs are typically hunting dogs with lots of energy and needing exercising accordingly The best thing you can do is find a well respected trainer near you , We had to drive an hour to reach the trainer we used and it was the best thing we ever did . What we were taught within 2 hrs has stuck with me and always will and it has been almost 4 months now and we have a totally different dog when on a lead were as at one point it was almost impossible to walk him nicely on a lead . Mike
Re: How to walk I suspect Anils may be in a country where neither off lead, nor trainers, are easily available.... Anils, where are you based? And what is available to you?
Re: How to walk [quote author=JulieT link=topic=6839.msg92972#msg92972 date=1404393288] Just to say, some people (me included), but not everyone of course, thinks a slip lead should never be used on a dog that pulls. It's better, but still not ideal, if there are two stoppers, one that prevents the choke action. [/quote] Julie is spot on here and being very diplomatic, using the slip as Kevg suggests could actually be harmful and damage the small bones in the dog's throat when the slip is positioned high and you have a strong puller. The stop shouldn't be used to inflict any pain either, that's not really the purpose of the stop, it's only there to keep the loop a size that won't slip off the neck inadvertently. I'd strongly advise not using a slip lead to 'train' a dog to heel; go back to the beginning and train the heel with no lead at all.
Re: How to walk When you have a 35kg dog pulling your arm out the socket every time you walk this is a very unpleasant experience. The slip lead merely imitates the bite a mother would give to her pups and the force applied if ultimately down to comments sense. I agree that being consistent is key here along with other off lead exercises like retrieval. Ultimately people all have differing view on slip leads but I from my experience can only speak positively regarding them.
Re: How to walk [quote author=kevg487 link=topic=6839.msg93067#msg93067 date=1404421890] The slip lead merely imitates the bite a mother would give to her pups and the force applied if ultimately down to comments sense. [/quote] I think this is absolute and utter rubbish, and if a trainer has told you that, you need to find another trainer or be happy with the risks you are taking. A slip lead is harmless if used with a dog when its lead walking is proofed 100%. If not, it is a choke device, like a choke chain. And acts as a punishment - and a potentially dangerous one to your dog's health. You should really use it with your eyes open to the possible consequences and risks. I say this knowing that lots of people would disagree with me. But modern training methods are not based on using force like this, and many people would not risk injury to their dog's necks in this way.
Re: How to walk Like I said before people all have differing view on slip leads but I from my experience can only speak positively regarding them. My lab can now walk at heel with no lead whereas a few months ago I was almost running after him with two burnt hands on the lead.
Re: How to walk That's fine - i'm not saying that punishment inflicted via a slip lead is not effective, it very well may be very effective indeed, and get you excellent results, and get those results much quicker than using positive reinforcement. But you can't offer the advice to use one on a dog that is an established puller and ignore the the possible consequences or pretend that it is a risk free option. It certainly - in my view - is not a consequence or risk free option.
Re: How to walk Here's the Association of Pet Dog Trainers policy (bottom of the page) on slip leads. http://www.apdt.co.uk/about/half-check-collars I think that pretty much covers it. There's a huge variety of dog owners on this forum, not all gun dog people who use slip leads for a very specific purpose and I can't think of anyone who still thinks that choking a dog is a good training regime. Even a fully grown dog who hasn't been taught to walk to heel properly can successfully be taught to do so using methods that don't involve hurting it or making it fearful. Of course if those things don't bother you then you're probably not going to get much out of this particular forum.
Re: How to walk How you can come to the conclusion from a few paragraphs I want to have a fearful or hurt dog I find a joke and insulting. My dog has never been choked and as I stated before the turning around action is what makes the dog walk at heel not choking. When I first introduced the lead it remained loose and the dog was taught to follow my hand again usually me walking in all directions. Obvcourse abusing the slip lead can cause the dog harm but so can a regular lead or any other piece of training equipment. This however is turning into a pro or con debate for slip leads which I'm sure we could find plenty of across the globe.
Re: How to walk [quote author=kevg487 link=topic=6839.msg93083#msg93083 date=1404428956] How you can come to the conclusion from a few paragraphs I want to have a fearful or hurt dog I find a joke and insulting. [/quote] Well, I'm sorry you feel upset. But the original poster described a dog that was pulling severely and badly, and your advice was to use a slip lead and a sharp about turn walk. You can expect some people to disagree with that advice and I'll put my hand up, honestly and geniunely, to being one of them. No doubt lots of people would disagree with me, and say I'm wrong. But I can't see that advice being given without saying I think that's an inappropriate way to treat a dog.
Re: How to walk Of course people will disagree and Each to there own opinion. My initial post was describing what worked for me. I'm sure Anil will do some research and find the correct method to correct the dogs behaviour. Good luck.
Re: How to walk A sharp turn around worked with our dog but it has to be controlled it is all about timing so as not to inflict injury , Which i am sure is what Kev was doing as the idea is to constantly keep the dog guessing so in the end the dog sees the best place to be is by your side As we all know offering advice on here is a good thing but you would need to write a 4 page essay to explain all the little techniques that we have all mastered over time . We have taken 2-3 methods shown to us and use a little of each constant variation with walks keeps the dog guessing , A dog trainer we know had to spend months on end to get his current dog to stop pulling it really is one of the hardest things to master successfully as every dog is different . Mike
Re: How to walk So, a dog that pulls and pulls for months on end is not damaging it's neck then?! A few quick turns with a slip lead, which would take a fraction of a second and if done correctly (ie lead pulled down so it is across the back of the neck and not under the neck and choking the dog) cures the problem. Both dog and owner are happy and a partnership is formed, rather than a frustrated dog straining to get ahead and an irritated owner who feels he/she is failing to teach a dog to walk to heel. Edited to add: Actually if you suddenly turn and say to the dog, this way, there is no need for the slip lead to tighten at all. Best way of all is to teach the pup to stay by your heel without a lead.
Re: How to walk Yes, a back fastening harness is the best thing for a dog that pulls, I think. And absolutely, if a "turn towards me" cue is taught, and proofed 100%, used before the lead goes tight, then what lead is used is irrelevant. I'm not sure most people with an established pulling problem are in this situation though. If they were, they wouldn't really have a problem. Using force is fast, and it's effective. I liked Jo Laurens' comment on this exact point on the facebook page - I don't think it's ok to cut and paste her comments but they are on the thread about pet dog owners, with dogs that pull, using slip leads (of course). Her point was basically that if you are stopping a dog very quickly from doing something it really wants to do - like pulling on a lead - she just doesn't believe that the punishment applied is trivial. To stop something as rewarding as pulling, science tells us that we need a strong punisher to function. If it's not strong, it won't work. She went on to explain why, even when people make considered decisions that in a particular circumstance force is the best thing to use, she thinks it's wrong to "gloss over" this and make out the force necessary is trivial. I very much agree with this line of reasoning, and I think the "not glossing over" bit is really important.
Re: How to walk Spot on Stacia, the key elements in your post being 'done correctly' and I think in the context of this thread we had an inexperienced poster (is that a word?) at the beginning and a post that suggested an element of short sharp shock with a little pain (references to emulating biting) - then it all went downhill from there. Your final point captured it all, best way is to teach the heel without a lead at all. As for back fastening harnesses, they obviously don't cure the walking to heel problem (Julie, I don't think you were suggesting they were) and with a puller they could be just as bad as slip leads depending on their type in term of potential damage, or so I'm led to believe. Also, handling two or more dogs, in the field, with harnesses I think would be a tad problematic. The lead solution will be different to each owners needs. There is only one answer and that's getting the heel 100% sorted off the lead. Then it doesn't matter what lead you're using.
