Hi everyone! Im new to posting here, but have been lurking for tips and info for the last 8 months since i got my lovely lab puppy. My yellow lab Bailey is now 8 months old and extremley well behaved, she is really an angel in comparison to many here, i feel really blessed! She has been fully toilet trained since she was 10 weeks old, she goes and sits at the door and gives me "the toilet" look. I made it really reinforcing from the start rewarding her with small pieces of boiled chicken when she went to the loo outside, she picked up very quickly that our garden was the best place to go, i believe she literally only had 2 accidents inside the house before she was 10 weeks old and never since. The problem is that she absolutley will not go to the loo anywhere else than our front garden... This only becomes an issue when we are away from the house for more than a few hours and she needs "to go". She gets really panicky and desperate and ends up with a fully blown zoomie attack. She literally only ever gets the zoomies for this reason. Ive tried to make it feel safe for her to go to the loo, and i always have some really tasty treats with me to reinforce it if she ever finally does "go" but she never does. Not once in 8 months! I even took a bus trip far away from the house last month to have a walk in a place where there wasnt anyone else, or smells of other dogs around, i thought if i stayed there all day eventually she would *have* to "go" and i could make it highly reinforcing and work gradually towards a solution from there. Sadly it backfired, and she held herself for 7 hours, getting gradually more panicky and desperate but with no sign of her "caving in" and going. Ive always said "go loo loos" when she has been doing her buisness, and she will "go loo loos" on command without fail here at home, but when i say this anywhere else she gives me a look as if to say "are you crazy mum this is totally NOT my loo loos place!" I realise that this is a proofing thing, the same as for any command. I would really like to help her to know its ok to go to the loo pretty much anywhere outside, but ive no idea how to actually get her to do it those first few times :-\ She is really clever and well behaved and absolutley faultless apart from this one thing. She will sit looking at her bowl of food for as long as i have the heart to test her patience on waiting for the "grubs up" command, even if we all leave the room. She will lay patiently surrounded by chicken fillets and sausage just waiting for me to give her a cuddle and a kibble bit. She will sit waiting by an open door even if the kids are playing outside and shes desperate to join in! she always waits for me to tell her its ok. She is truly amazing! She has pretty much had all this perfectly learned from the first month of her comming to us, i do take the positive training seriously and the results are fantastic. But maybe ive trained her a little too well? Do you think i can get her to ever go to the loo outside of our garden?
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... Must admit we were struggling with this too. He actually had a water infection not so long ago and I'm pretty sure it was because he held it for so long - I gave home loads of opportunities to go but he just wouldn't ! He's getting better slowly, but I can tell he finds it hard. He is only 14 weeks though. Interested to hear other, more experienced advice...
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... Hmmm, I think it definitley sounds like she is trained too well!!! Hahaha, no but you've done a brilliant job by the sounds of things. Has she ever toileted when out on a walk, or somewhere not at home? I don't really know what to suggest except carry on what you're doing and gently encouraging her that it's ok to go elsewhere too. I think taking her out and waiting for her to go might have been bad for her as she evidently was very stressed by it, but the theory behind it works - if she's desperate enough she will have to go, though sometimes they can be very stubborn! I'm sure someone else will be along with some better advice then mine soon!
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... Shhh, don't tell the other puppy owners who are trying to stop their puppies weeing inside! ;D ;D There may be far more experienced people with better suggestions, but my first thought is, how about getting a little old cloth, kitchen roll or somesuch and soaking up a little of her wee, put it in a very well sealed plastic bag(!) and then putting it on the floor when you're out and about, so she smells her own wee there and maybe would think that it's OK to go there, then? Probably madness, but it's also probably the kind of thing I would try!
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... Hi and welcome to you and angelic Bailey Does she know you have amazing treats available when you are out trying to get her to perform in other places?
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... [quote author=Kirriegirl link=topic=10307.msg151450#msg151450 date=1427123095] Hi and welcome to you and angelic Bailey Does she know you have amazing treats available when you are out trying to get her to perform in other places? [/quote] Yes she does, i usually give my "look at me" cue and reward it with the really good stuff, so she knows its "on the cards" [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=10307.msg151448#msg151448 date=1427122813] Has she ever toileted when out on a walk, or somewhere not at home? [/quote] Sadly not once ever, its something i noticed from the start and have literally been waiting for the chance to reward but just never get the opportunity. I feel really guilty about trying to force the issue and totally stressing her out instead [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10307.msg151449#msg151449 date=1427122837] how about getting a little old cloth, kitchen roll or some such and soaking up a little of her wee, put it in a very well sealed plastic bag(!) and then putting it on the floor when you're out and about, so she smells her own wee there and maybe would think that it's OK to go there, then? Probably madness, but it's also probably the kind of thing I would try! [/quote] This is a great tip and i will try it out asap and post the results here. Thanks!
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... You need to be sure they can go on command. So say the command as they wee, every time, for a few weeks, then just before for a few weeks. Then, eventually you can ask them to go anywhere and they will. Gypsy (Guide Dog Puppy) has to go 99% of the time at home and 1% of the time on command - if we are out a long time, but never on walks. It takes months to train, but it works. Gypsy will squeeze a drop out on command even if she doesn't need to go.
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... Could you take her on the lead in your front garden and very gradually over a few days, get her nearer and nearer the gate and then one day just pop out of the gate.
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... [quote author=Boogie link=topic=10307.msg151452#msg151452 date=1427123383] You need to be sure they can go on command. So say the command as they wee, every time, for a few weeks, then just before for a few weeks. Then, eventually you can ask them to go anywhere and they will. Gypsy (Guide Dog Puppy) has to go 99% of the time at home and 1% of the time on command - if we are out a long time, but never on walks. It takes months to train, but it works. Gypsy will squeeze a drop out on command even if she doesn't need to go. [/quote] She seems to have going to the loo on command at home, she will literaly squeeze something out if i ask her too here even if its not long since shes been. I feel sure she understands the command at home, but i know from reading about training that dogs cant really generalize a command very well in different settings without training. She panics and does the zoomies even more if i give her the command outside of our garden, its like she feels its totally the wrong place. [quote author=Stacia link=topic=10307.msg151453#msg151453 date=1427123659] Could you take her on the lead in your front garden and very gradually over a few days, get her nearer and nearer the gate and then one day just pop out of the gate. [/quote] Ive kind of tried this already but maybe gave up too quickly. She would immediatley just start pulling back towards the garden, this was the only real time she has pulled on the leash. I can deffinatley try it again now that shes a little older, i think she may have been 4 months when i tried this out last.
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... What do you mean by zoomies - and does it matter if she zoomies so long as she does the wee and can be rewarded for that? (the wee where you asked)
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... Hello and welcome to the forum Well, yes, I can see how inconvenient and limiting that might be - rather limits holidays and so on. I rather think this is a problem about behaviour rather than training in that unless she only ever goes on cue in the garden, and never unless you give the cue, it's about the location not the cue. Dogs are creatures of habit, so she has formed a very strong habit, it seems. Is she off lead on her walks? If so, at what age did she start getting off lead walks away from the house?
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10307.msg151459#msg151459 date=1427125175] Is she off lead on her walks? If so, at what age did she start getting off lead walks away from the house? [/quote] Hmm, yes, my two don't like doing their business when on lead. They will do a wee under duress, but neither has ever done a poo when on lead. To be fair, they don't poo a lot anyway, so that may just be coincidence.
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... [quote author=Boogie link=topic=10307.msg151458#msg151458 date=1427124827] What do you mean by zoomies - and does it matter if she zoomies so long as she does the wee and can be rewarded for that? (the wee where you asked) [/quote] When i say zoomies, i mean she totally flips out, running around me in circles at full speed yanking my arm out of the socket, like she looses all kind of control of herself, and its literally only in this situation, if she starts to need to "go" or if i stop on a nice grassy area and ask her to "go", at all other times and in all other situations she has amazing stimulus control and fantastic leash manners, she walks calmly beside me with a slack leash until i tell her its ok to "sniff" around freely a bit before we continue. Its only a problem when were away from the house for a while, its not often that we go far for long enough for it to become a problem. But the times we do its really harsh. I live in Norway and theres a lot of ice around still, and not all of our roads have pavements. last time she started her "need the loo zoomies" we were 10 minutes away from home and walking on a very icy road without pavement and it was dark, she started running in zig zags and circles totally out of the blue and almost got us both hit by a car, i slipped on the ice since she has become so strong and dropped the leash and she carried on doing her crazy dance infront of the car that thankfully had stopped. If she ever actually did eventually "go" even after the zoomies i would reward and praise her, but sadly she just wont, the only thing that solves it is finally getting home and her going to the loo in the garden. Then shes back to her normal angelic calm self. Its like she is terrified to go to the loo outside of the front garden. We have taken to asking her to go to the loo before we go out for a walk so its generally not a problem, but i just wondered if there was a way to make her feel safe about other places because i know she gets really distressed those times when we arent near home.
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10307.msg151459#msg151459 date=1427125175] Hello and welcome to the forum Well, yes, I can see how inconvenient and limiting that might be - rather limits holidays and so on. I rather think this is a problem about behaviour rather than training in that unless she only ever goes on cue in the garden, and never unless you give the cue, it's about the location not the cue. Dogs are creatures of habit, so she has formed a very strong habit, it seems. Is she off lead on her walks? If so, at what age did she start getting off lead walks away from the house? [/quote] We sometimes go to a local dog park for offleash, only ever seen 2 other dogs there and often we have the place to ourselves, that might change as the weather conditions improve towards summer though. I also have been taking her down to a football pitch 5 mins from our house for recall training and retrieve play. Ive been doing this since she was 12 weeks old. She dosnt usually stray far away from me, and regularly checks in with me inbetween running and having fun, and always comes to her recall cue. Ive watched her like a hawk though, and she never went to the loo under any of these situations either. And yes it seems she has a really intense habbit about our garden. Unwittingly encouraged by me whislt toilet training with really yummy treats
Re: I think I toilet trained my puppy *too* good... I think a lot of off lead time with other dogs playing and relaxing would solve this, most dogs find it pretty difficult not to pee on other dogs' pee...even most girls.
