Re: I'm training - back up Definitely interested in scent work, for sure....I run out of hours in the day though. But it's definitely something I want to do at some point.
Re: I'm training - back up Haha!! Just as long as you are both happy Julie, that's a great reason! Stacia, never thought of that with the tuna! Great idea, thanks.
Re: I'm training - back up I think it is fascinating how we view dog handling compared with how we view horsemanship. No one would ever question the value of being a better horseman/woman when it comes to controlling a horse. In fact we probably focus more on the skill of the rider than on the skill of the horse. With dogs it seems to be the other way around. We focus on the dog and I think we fail to value the skills of the trainer.
Re: I'm training - back up There's a lot in that thought - there is no doubt at all that my next dog will be better trained than Charlie (as I've learned so much already, and already know what I'd do better next time around). I bet that process never ends though.
Re: I'm training - back up I think that's one of the reasons I like our current trainer....he concentrates on the handlers and how they work and deal with things rather than the dogs
Re: I'm training - back up JulieT you will find that each dog you have will have a different problem from the last dog which was solved ;D The process never ends and that is the joy of it, so much to learn.
Re: I'm training - back up [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8308.msg118523#msg118523 date=1413820554] There's a lot in that thought - there is no doubt at all that my next dog will be better trained than Charlie (as I've learned so much already, and already know what I'd do better next time around). I bet that process never ends though. [/quote] Although S&S have behaviour issues that my old lab never had which has made certain things difficult they are much better trained than my old lab. As you've said Julie its because I now know more and what i did wrong last time. Yes problems have arisen that I never had to deal with with Murphy, namely their fear of strangers, but I understand how and what to train more now than I did. With Murphy we were learning together and although with S&S I'm still learning I'm hopefully a few more steps ahead or at least have a better understanding.
Re: I'm training - back up [quote author=editor link=topic=8308.msg118522#msg118522 date=1413820189] I think it is fascinating how we view dog handling compared with how we view horsemanship. No one would ever question the value of being a better horseman/woman when it comes to controlling a horse. In fact we probably focus more on the skill of the rider than on the skill of the horse. With dogs it seems to be the other way around. We focus on the dog and I think we fail to value the skills of the trainer. [/quote] Very interesting point. I totally agree. With dogs, we underplay the human skill required and how much it all lives and dies by the ability of the human. That leads people to unfairly blame their dogs when it goes wrong! With horses, we make the opposite mistake of focusing far too much on the human (e.g. rider position) and not enough on the quality of the training of the horse or the 'rider as trainer'. The science of horse training is so far behind dog training it's not funny....
Re: I'm training - back up The force free ethos is building momentum in horse riding for sure. I've recently come back to riding after 20+ years away and have met people who C&T and work bit less and shoeless in an effort to touch the horse more lightly. Even something as simple as rising trot is a given 90% of the time whereas back in the day I was permanently in sitting trot in flat lessons. Lots of in-hand proponents too to develop the horse in preparation for taking a rider. Doubtless a long way to go but it's out there if you want to go that way.
Re: I'm training - back up The British Army taught me to ride...we didn't use a clicker.... I gave up riding many years ago, and now am absolutely fascinated to hear snippets about clicker training horses...love to know how it's done.
Re: I'm training - back up I used the mat method with Tamber - did it in my hall way (or you could set up a narrow chute to help), so less room to turn round and go back to the mat, much easier then for her to simply step backwards - you get a much nicer back-up than if you "crowd" her to go backwards and you then have the option of following her to back up together which is one of the Rally obedience moves required or if you want to dance together. Its really cool - you can back away from each other do a twirl on the spot and then advance - mega fun. (I haven't managed the Richard Curtis move where the dog backs away from you, turns through 180 degrees and then backs back through your legs !!) Tamber does it so independently from me that I can ask her to "verse" (ie reverse) while she is poised ready for a retrieve. So sometimes instead of being released to go for a retrieve, she has to back up first (but she can still 'mark' the retrieve position while doing this. Steadiness is an ongoing work with her, so this makes her listen to me and only go on the correct cue. So you never know when fun can be useful and if not useful, then still fun
Re: I'm training - back up Great to hear of your experience - thank you. Also great to hear I was right to be doubtful about crowding the dog - not that Charlie seemed to mind, but it didn't seem to be a good way. I don't have the ambition to dance! Yet, anyway...
Re: I'm training - back up [quote author=FoxyLady link=topic=8308.msg118600#msg118600 date=1413838777] So you never know when fun can be useful and if not useful, then still fun [/quote] I like that! ;D
Re: I'm training - back up also add to the skills learnt is that of trust - when Mum tells me to go backwards I trust her enough to do so without looking - she will have made sure it is OK
Re: I'm training - back up Very interesting. I could have done with a firm reverse today as Lilly headed off to roll in a decaying corpse on the beach. : Seriously though, have tried this a few times - with clicker and without - and although I can get her to reverse if we are facing each other (with me walking into her almost) I don't seem to be able to get her to do it at my side. I suppose doing it with her at my side but facing backwards might be the first step?? I will keep chipping away.
Re: I'm training - back up The kikopup vid shows luring with a treat under the chin - it looks very messy and wonky to me, not great at all. I think it is a very old kikopup vid. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k4LoPU1g310 With the mat method, I'd just repeat but with my position relative to the dog changed, I think.
Re: I'm training - back up Do you mean heel backwards together? If Lilly knows the heel position - then you could try next to a wall - take a step forward and click for her coming to heel position and then see what happens if you take a step back - if she's used to reversing then she might just take a step back to get into her heel position - click I think that's what we did, but its hard to remember. I haven't tried a reverse recall towards me and away from a yummy corpse - that would be hard !! I might try a reverse towards me using the mat - hummm - one for a cold wet winter's night I think.
Re: I'm training - back up That's the one I had watched Julie. I will see how it goes Hmm....Lilly's heel? I shall try and avoid answering that one..... (might work in the house though I suppose, outside pretty doubtful) I will experiment - Thank you
Re: I'm training - back up [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8308.msg118598#msg118598 date=1413838539] The British Army taught me to ride...we didn't use a clicker.... I gave up riding many years ago, and now am absolutely fascinated to hear snippets about clicker training horses...love to know how it's done. [/quote] There are a few good books. I have 'How to Click With Your Horse' by Georgia Bruce (needed a good spell checker but the content is very good). For an application of learning theory to horse training I also highly recommend anything by Andrew or Manuela Mclean (see http://www.aebc.com.au/) - especially 'Academic Horse Training'. Solid, evidence based foundation. As Barbara says, the revolution is slowly building momentum
Re: I'm training - back up Thank Rachael, I'll take a look at those (although my "to read" book pile is starting to wobble at the top...sigh...).
