I live in an very urban city with logs of dogs around and between a few busy streets. I like the idea of leaving Toby while at least until he's fully matured. But I am worried for the possibility of his being caught in excited male mode and run off to at the first whiff of a female. I'm worried I'd never see him again due to getting hit by a car or being found and stolen or just not getting back to me. Our yard is fully fenced but with 4 feet tall fences and I know he could jump it if he wanted (in a year or more when he's matured). So I'm thinking about neutering simple for his safety. Any thoughts on this?
Is raising the height of the fence an option? If you think he can get over it it might be good to raise it, regardless of whether he's entire or not. Then you won't need to worry. Not all entire male dogs want to run off after bitches. He might be one of the 'stay at home' variety.
Do you mean you intend to leave him outside by himself? My neighbours did that, their Golden Retriever could jump their four foot fence. I found her outside and put her back twice. Her. Spayed too. If they get bored and lonely left all alone sex isn't the only thing to persuade them to jump and run. She did get hit by a car. Our fence is four feet, my boy is intact, there is a breeding kennel of GR up wind of us. Oban doesn't try to get to them and I'm sure Eau de bitch in heat is often wafting over our house. What IS a big concern is winter when snowbanks lower the fence. You will probably have the snow problem too.
@Snowshoe No I do not intend to leave him alone. But our house sits in the middle of the lot so you can run around the entire house and never leave the fenced area. I'm assuming that when we're outside I'll have to keep interacting with him be it training or playing or lounging to keep him with me. It's a little why I'm concerned that he's perfectly fine leaving me in the front and hanging out by himself in the back. I was hoping for that Velcro dog but it hasn't happened yet. ((We've only had him for 3 days so......I know...give it more time)) he likes to play with my kids and they like to have him chase them so I can't even now keep him in my site 100% of the time ((I can't keep up with a 4 year old boy and a puppy )). Thankfully Toby tires out after one circle around the house. That will last a week or so. Also no, @Oberon raising the fence isn't a possibility. I don't plan to allow him to get bored often. I got him to play and interact with. If *I* can't be outside with him, I keep him inside. Wishful thinking maybe. There's always "that one time" I'm in a hurry and I let him out to potty.......... I know. I shouldn't worry myself about things that won't happen for several months.....
I'm pretty sure you'll know if a bitch is in heat. In that case you'll know to be extra vigilant. Intact boys dogs show plenty signs when they catch a whiff. My sister's dog was forever absconding over a six-foot wall. Was often caught by the dog catcher, sister got massive fines. Eventually she attached a long chain to him that slid along a cable the length of her garden for when she couldn't keep an eye on him. And guess what?! The in heat girl dogs got into their yard to visit him!! He fathered a litter of pups this way, the girl dog camped with him for a week. Just stating the facts here -- judgements are a whole other story. My boy is intact but he's never left to his own devices and our garden is secure. Although I'm guessing that if an in heat bitch were in the street he'd find a way out, which is scary cos our fence is steel with spiked fleur de lise. But as I said, he's closely monitored and actually prefers to be inside with us.
I live in a very build up urban area with a large dog population . My entire male dog could jump the fence its 6 ft easily but he never left unsupervised. I am careful because we have had dog thefts round here. Rory is 4 and not been a problem to manage. We have been faced with in season bitches many times now and he had been very good and easy to control. I did not neuter as I knew it would be healthier emotionally and physically and just waited observed his behaviour and made my decision. I've had both entire and neutered dogs and found them be equally easy to live with.I would not neuter now other than a medical reasons. I would not neuter unless I had too before the age of 18 months.
I have an intact city dog who get's distracted when there are bitches in season, but only from going on walks and sniffing pee or meeting bitches in season, not from air scents. We don't have a garden though, but leave the windows open and have a balcony. I guess there are a few thing to consider: - My boy was over 12 months old before he started to find bitches in season distracting, but it wasn't really hard for him until he was 2 years old - so you might have a lot of time before this is a problem. - If you are going to neuter it's best to wait until they are fully grown - around 12 months for a medium sized dog. With a lab I guess 18 months is best. - Dogs escape from gardens for lots of reasons! Not always because they aren't neutered - some just like to roam, some have hunting intstincts. But, some dogs don't escape from gardens. I wouldn't risk it and would try to make it a bit higher anyway if he will be unsupervised, neutered or not. If it were me, I wouldn't worry about it now, and would wait and see if it's a problem once he's an adult, instead of pre-emptively neutering for something that might never be a problem.
My last dog, Brogan (in my avatar) was neutered very young at only 8 weeks as a rescue before I got him. I only found out years later that many of the Brogan's health and behavioural issues had a high correlation with early neuter. Even the eventual cause of his death (splenic hemangiosarcoma) is highly correlated with early neuter. While you are not talking about neutering so young, I just wanted to explain why I'm piping up here. Correlation does not equal causation, but when I started researching the cause of Brogan's death, I was shocked. As an American, I'd always been firm in my thinking that responsible dog people neutered their dogs, both for the dog's health and for preventing more homeless dogs and dog aggression. Imagine my surprise to learn that the "prevents aggression" thing is more anecdotal than proven fact and that the health benefits fall heavier on the side of not neutering. Of course neutering DOES prevent unwanted litters, and this can be a very valid reason to practice it in places with sad pet overpopulation issues, like where I come from (California/US in general). I also now live in a country where neutering is not the norm and is in fact viewed poorly. I was constantly explaining why my dog had no "equipment". Combined with Brogan's docked tail (also not my choice and done before his adoption from rescue), you can imagine the amount of defending I did of myself and my dog to the general German public (although great practice for my German ). This is a very long-winded explanation to say that my own personal choice is that I will not be neutering my next dog. And while I fully respect whatever choice each individual makes about their own dog, I really encourage everyone with an intact male puppy to look at the research and educate themselves on the pros and cons of neutering. Look outside what your vet is telling you and what your society tells you and make an informed decision that you are happy with. And if you feel you are the only one around with an un-neutered male, come here for support. There are lots of "my dog is intact and doing just fine, thank you" people on the forum. And lastly... your new avatar photo of Toby is precious. Hope you are all doing well and having fun on your first weekend together!
Hello @Labmama0701 ! Wow, Toby is cute. I'm one of those "my dog is intact" people, and I'd just echo what lots of others have said. What I've learned since getting Pongo and doing research is: - neutering doesn't necessarily change behaviour. - some dogs have higher "drive" than others....Pongo, for example, very very rarely notices bitches unless they are particularly delectable (i.e. in heat). - if my dog was going to jump a fence, he'd be more likely to jump it to go see another dog/human/potential playmate than to chase a bitch - and neutering isn't going to stop that! - neutering male dogs, especially before they are fully grown, definitely seems to have proven health consequences that I wouldn't want to risk without good reason. So, if I were you, I definitely would not be neutering just because of a fear that he'll run off, certainly not while Toby is young and possibly not ever (unless he did prove to have a strong sexual drive / desire to abscond). Even if he did start to behave that way, I would suggest trying a reversible neutering first (using a medication) to check whether the behaviour is actually driven by testosterone; it would be tragic to castrate your boy and then find that the problem didn't go away. I have found that some of my day-care / dog-boarding options are limited because many day care centres in the UK say they won't take entire dogs over 12 months of age. That could have been a problem for me, but I managed to find an option that works. If it had been impossible to find a solution, then I might have had to have him neutered (because I'd rather do that than leave him alone in the house for long periods of time). But I'm really glad I didn't have to make that choice. The issue about him being able to jump the wall are a different kettle of fish. I don't know what the answer is to that - and I do sympathise. Some basic things like making sure he always wears his collar and an id tag with your phone number clearly on it; having him chipped; I know you probably do all that. Is there any possibility of adding something to the top of your fence so that it overhangs into the yard?
homer is also intact and we live in a densely populated area with lots of dogs about. Fortunately the only way out our property is through the front door so we don't have problems with escaping. Our walks are off lead along the river or on the common and occasionally we do meet in season female dogs. For Homer the dog in season has to come past quite close for him to go up and sniff and I've learnt to watch out for his over interested signals and quickly take him away. Only problem in when the other owner hasn't realised that he is following and they keep on walking (or even cycling with their dog on a lead!) in the opposite direction and I have to run after him. It was only once H was about 2 and a half years old when he first showing any signs of being interested in girls.
Thank thank you all for all your input and kind words about Toby. I had made the decision to leave him be until fully matured. The breeder recommended this and even suggested that keeping whole would be best for him. I do live in the US so our culture is all about the neutering "to be good dog owners." I have learned that the Animal Humane Society has doggy play dates on Saturday's. But I think they only allow neutered dogs. I wrote my post after having Toby's first vet visit. I opted to get the cheaper puppy care plan that doesn't include a neutering surgery. Everyone questioned me and one technician even said "I just want to make sure you are making an informed decision." And "informed" me that deciding to wait till he's an adult would be a more expensive surgery and be harder on the dog. And I assured her that I had been researching it and was comfortable with my decision. Even the front desk lady was surprised by my decision. So doubts creeped in. Thank you all for your stories. I always think worst case scenario and prepare for it. Toby has shown himself to be an amazingly calm and laid back dog. He really loves to just sit back and watch the action happen. When inspired he'll jump into action and play. Maybe I won't have a runner at all.
Regarding neutering so that your dog can attend doggy day care or play dates: when dogs grow older, they generally prefer their own friends or their own space for extended periods of time, i.e. they don't want to be stuck at doggy day care all day. If you needed to leave your dog alone, a dog walker who popped in for an hour or took him for a walk would be a good option. Snowie went to doggy day care once a week till six months old. I was upset thinking I was depriving him of this outing cos he was not allowed back after six months old if intact. Well, I realized at around three yo he wasn't interested in strange dogs anymore -- yes to meet n greet and sniff, but rarely to play with. He adores his friends though. I also notice that he is happy at the dog park for much shorter times now. As a puppy I had to drag him out. Now he tells me after about 10-15 mins that he's had enough. And I'm sure he's happy to chill alone at home rather than with a room full of dogs. He is very sociable and friendly, but he's become far more discerning with age. Maybe it's because he's intact - but I won't ever know!!
This is an odd thing. Here in Portugal you can't go in the street with a dog without a leach. A lot of people do but if your dog is hit by a car in the street without a leach, you are responsible for the damages, and care for the dog. Sometimes it's a short leach, other times it's a long leach, most times, if not all, with a harness. He gets all crazy when i put him the harness as he now knows what's coming. We have a lot of dogs in the street and i let him socialize a bit, but within limits. We had a dog here in street that would bite other dogs so... Anyway, if you're going to leave him in a garden, i think you have 2 options, one is to raise the fence. The other is to use a mountable kennel, 1.8 Mts minimum, or they can jump it! The kennel is also a good way to maintain them safe from eating rubbish, toxic plants and so on. My boy is intact. When we go to the street he always has a leach. Chances are you will spay your dog and he will still try to run away. I also had the idea that a dog would be less crazy if he was neutered but neutering just for that feels that is neutering for the wrong reason. If your dog's testicles fell down with no problem, there is no reason to neuter, imho.
Ps.:Read your vet discussion too, and i find really odd too that they said it was a more expensive op. The problem with neutering too soon is that they get bone problems sooner.
That's pretty standard here too. With some the price is based on weight (I was told by my Vet) and for my sister's dog the price simply doubled after Bonnie hit six months. I do understand it can be a more complicated surgery if a female has been through a heat or even just has more mature organs in her body. I guess the Vet just sets a limit at six months. I don't understand it for the boys and since Sis's dog is female I don't know if maybe that Vet doesn't apply the same price increase to boys.
Interesting you say that. My breeder said that their bones are affected by early neutering and he suggested waiting till 18-24 months to neuter. Then the vet brought up the bone issue himself and said it's not true...or at least there is no evidence to support it. I didn't care for this vet in general and will not be seeing him anymore.
One vet visit when H was still small enough to be lifted up in to the table we were seen by a locum vet rather than our usual vet. The visit was a check up on something completely different but the vet went into flamboyant over exaggerated detail of how much blood there would be if we neutered him later once his testicles had matured and that it's a much easier procedure to do it there and then. There was no way I was going to let this vet anywhere near my puppy.
So interesting... I have had several male dogs and never neutered, nor saw a reason to. It partly is culture-based - it is almost considered unethical here in Germany to neuter male dogs unless there is a health reason for doing so.
Is it actually illegal to neuter in Germany unless you have Vet signing to say there is a health reason to do so? That's what a German born friend of my OH told us. I don't know how long he's been in Canada. He was pleased and surprised to see Oban was intact.
Technically, yes. But most vets will do it, if there seems to be a genuine reason for it (which is pretty flexible).
