I read this today and found it very interesting. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...do-dogs-learn-faster-food-other-types-rewards
Re: Interesting Article Very interesting indeed. I'm intrigued to know if the fact that you hand feed changes how your dog perceives food - reward or fundamental need? and if there are elements of other rewards within that. Also if strong conditioning at close distances improves your success when additional distance comes into play......all very thought provoking I've got hold of a copy of 'Training the Retriever' by J A Kersley (as recommended by Steve) if you ignore the crime and punishment section it's proving very interesting and written with more than a dollop of humour
Re: Interesting Article That is really interesting! I had a much more successful walk today (yesterday was :-[ with Charlie going deaf and jumping up at people) - I thought it was because I massively upped my food rewards for the first couple of recalls, swapping from tiny bits of chicken to hunks of mackerel (which are so messy to carry). I do notice that if he knows I've got loads of smelly fish, he is generally much better behaved! I think that's just a sort of general bribe though and I can't rely on having a pocket of mackerel forever! So I was thinking about the effect of different types and amounts of food today. Although for a recall away from a dog walker with lots of dogs he got both a mackerel and a throw of his ball, which worked really well. It's possible I could sometimes swap food for ball throws, but not sure a "good boy" would cut it with Charlie.
Re: Interesting Article I guess they all react to different rewards ? When Sam was a pup, it was food , food and more food, but now at the grand age of two, his chosen reward is another retrieve , food doesnt cut it any more . I was having a short training session with Millie yesterday evening at the river , her on long line and me teaching recall with sausage . Sam kept returning with his dummy , I offered him a piece of sausage and he blanked it completely, just stared at the dummy for another throw
Re: Interesting Article [quote author=JulieT link=topic=1946.msg16026#msg16026 date=1373444457] It's possible I could sometimes swap food for ball throws, but not sure a "good boy" would cut it with Charlie. [/quote] We're getting to the same point as Kate is at with Sam, food has rarely tempted Riley away from other dogs they're just too much fun and he's well fed. His tennis ball or rabbit dummy however have become more and more important and his reward for coming back from two other labs this morning was to have his ball thrown.
Re: Interesting Article Very interesting - this forum is so good for making me think a bit harder about what I'm doing. I have really just assumed that food is the thing, and am focused on upping and downing the value of it (kibble vs sea biscuits, mackerel vs chicken). But the comments about dummies makes me think I could try other things - I wonder if varying the type (food vs other things) is more effective than just one thing all the time. I do use toys, but I viewed the purpose as to make myself interesting so Charlie had a good time by staying with me (now you've come back, we'll have a game of football so you want to stay here...). I wasn't really seeing toys and games as a specific reward. Right, time for a think in advance of our time tomorrow.
Re: Interesting Article So would you say you have a method that you as the owner/handler would always prefer to use? Or does the preference of each dog dictate how you handle things? It doesn't mention age of the dogs used in the research, as Kate says, as puppies it's food all the way for my lot, but as they mature it's more toys. Charlie will expect a treat when she comes back to me, Harry wants another ball throw. Alfie never leaves my side so he's getting patted all the while, coz he's an old boy. It's different for each one.
Re: Interesting Article You just have to work out what gets your dog going. Also, take advantage of situational opportunities for your dog to do something he wants, e.g. at daycare Obi has to stay sitting in the car until I take off his seatbelt and harness and swap the lead to his collar. If he sits quietly then he is told he can get out of the car and run with me to the daycare gate - a big reward that strongly reinforces the behaviour that came before it. Other than that, it is food, food, food or food With my previous dog as a puppy it was food. As a 14 yr old it was.....food. Good to read about some actual research using a proper experimental design to test the impact of different reward types. Very interesting
Re: Interesting Article I have two dogs who are very food motivated and two who aren't. Well, actually they are but only when we do very mundane things like walking to heel or sit/stays for example. When we are doing complex retrieving work Alice and Caddie would see food as a completely unnecessary interruption. They work for the next retrieve. Murffi on the other hand prefers to be rewarded with food or even better a chance to hunt. Ziggy the Clumber just loves anything I give as a reward, food, praise, tickling his chin, absolutely everything. That is one of his very endearing traits. ;D There is another very important point in the article, the fact that increasing distance diminishes the likelihood that the dog will listen to a command. Even my little Miss Goody Two Shoes Caddie has pretended to be out of whistle range on the odd occasion :!! So keep your dogs close to you and if they happen to have a drop of spaniel blood in them keep them even closer. ;D
Re: Interesting Article I was thinking about the distance point too. I allow Charlie to run towards other dogs (I do take care, and often speak to the owner first and explain we are learning) so I can recall him back. I know almost exactly how far away he can be when I'm likely to fail. But if he gets very far away, he panics, and so will come back like a shot as my call locates me for him (this is likely to be a puppy thing, I think). Interestingly, I never started with the recall over very short distances, we started learning on a beach with recalls of about 10 - 15 metres (ok, I know, but we were working with what we had at the time, and I didn't know any better). So if I'm too CLOSE the recall will fail too (although "let's go" and walking away works) - which make me think maybe I don't have much of a proper recall at all yet, just a puppy response. So distance is very critical for me! Duh.... I'll have to work on it. Otherwise I'll end up with a dog that will recall from precisely 17.25 metres and nothing else!
Re: Interesting Article Good stuff. Lady is pretty much expecting a food treat after a "Good girl", but pretty much does everything without. As she's not properly trained to retrieve proper game I always also take some high value treats like sausage or chicken and let her know I've got that so if she's a bit reluctant to hand over the goods I've got a back-up. ;D
Re: Interesting Article Really interesting article, thanks Heidrun. As a 'crossover' trainer that has only been using food for around ten years, it is nice to have my own belief that food gets faster results than patting and praise, supported by some evidence.
Re: Interesting Article Yes, itis interesting. When retrieving, Poppy is completely disinterested in trats, and will actually spit them out! But she looks for a treat after for instance a long-distance recall.
