Re: Jumping fences I was thinking about this. Why there is the reaction "what? you can't leave a dog in a garden!" from the UK. I include myself in this, I have never left a dog outside on its own for any length of time, and neither did my parents. It is very black and white here, I think. Either the dog is kept outside in a proper kennel and run (and even then, quite a few people would disagree that's appropriate, of course it's perfectly fine) or inside, in which case leaving it alone in a garden would be unthinkable for most (but not all) people. I think the weather probably contributes - the UK weather is unpredictable (rather than extreme). Houses and gardens are often smaller, and closer together, than in other countries, increasing the risk of dog theft, and barking being very anti-social and perhaps limiting the "proper kennel and run" space. And also making the height and style of boundary fences and hedges a bit touchy with neighbours. Also, in a small, packed, very busy island, in lots of areas a escaped dog may fare very badly indeed in terms of traffic and its chances of survival. So the consequences of the dog escaping may be higher.
Re: Jumping fences Yes, I've been wondering about it too. Barking all day is a no-no here too, but in terms of the other factors most people with a dog would have a decent sized yard. Fences between neighbours are usually about 6 feet high and house blocks are probably bigger here. Well, in cities and towns anyway. Very few people here would use a kennel and dog run. It is funny, as putting your dog in a dog run would be seen by people here as quite odd and even a bit cruel, compared to allowing your dog the run of the backyard
Re: Jumping fences It is odd. My back garden is very secure, behind the security of the house (there was an attempted break-in not long after we moved in, and I went to town on CCTV, security bars, and anti-climb spikes) - not that we live in a high crime area, far from it. Most of the boundary is a very high wall, and on the other side there is a fence that I have had repaired and strengthened. Charlie couldn't jump these, no way. He isn't a digger. In addition to that, I have a dog enclosure with even higher (seriously high) walls and anti-dig fences, which is shady and cool. I wouldn't leave my dog outside though if I went out! It would be convenient to do so, I could buy a kennel for the enclosure. He doesn't bark... Gosh, why wouldn't I? Dog theft is a big reason, it would still be possible for someone to get over part of the wall (I have no idea how they would get back over with a 28kg labrador though :-\). I guess I worry an intruder might harm him. Foxes are another reason. Foxes can get in and out of the garden, as they walk along the top of the walls, and jump down through the trees, and are extraordinarily agile. I worry about a cornered fox hurting Charlie. Hmmmm...is this rational?
Re: Jumping fences Well, a dog is perfectly happy inside the house so, aside from the interesting intellectual exercise of determining the rationality of baulking at leaving your dog outside, I wouldn't worry It's still an interesting cultural difference though and I don't think we've fully cracked it!
Re: Jumping fences I think it's interesting. I think it's definitely culture - there isn't a rational reason really for me to pay a dog walker to pop in if I'm gone for more than 3 hours rather than leave Charlie outside. Something else tells me it's "wrong" - and that's just what I believe is normal. Bit mad, really.
Re: Jumping fences I think it's multi faceted why we don't generally leave our dogs in the garden/yard in the UK these days. I'm old enough to remember when dogs were often left outside or were latchkey dogs during the day time though, so it hasn't always been this way. Of the dogs I can remember being shut in the garden all day, most of them were miserable, lonely beasts. We had one either side of us, a Spaniel one side and a Lab the other, both would sit by the back door for hours (the Spaniel would also howl), hoping someone would let them in. It was a sad sight to see, as all they wanted was to be part of the family and to have a cosy place to lay and sleep. The latchkey dogs on the other hand, were happy as Larry. They would be let out in the morning, go around to find their mates, hang out all day in packs and then go home for tea. They had a smashing time while they were out. They had freedom and company, then dinner and somewhere warm to sleep indoors until the next day. Of course we aren't allowed to just let dogs roam the streets these days, so instead we tend to attend to their company and socialisation needs ourselves, by letting them be with us in our homes for most of the time, and taking them to play with their mates in the park. I personally have no qualms about dogs living outside in a proper, draft free kennel, with a warm comfortable bed in it, however, I don't think it's fair to shut them out there on their own, unless they really are an antisocial type. Dogs like and need company and if their family member leave them for any amount of time, they prefer to be where that family usually lives, which in UK is usually inside the house. We don't really have the weather here for us humans to live outside, do we Of course we also have the noise issue here. Outside dogs tend to bark, especially if on their own and this annoys neighbours. Dog theft from gardens is rife and if dogs do decide to abscond over the fence, then chances are they will either be picked up by the dog warden (and the owner fined), stolen to be used as dog bait for fighting gangs, or run over, as unless it's a very rural area, the UK's roads are very busy and dangerous. As for my own dogs, if I go out and leave the back door open on a warm day (I only do this when my son is working upstairs from home), when I get back, the dogs are ALWAYS indoors. They never choose to go play or lay in the garden. They only really go out there, if I go out there with them, so I guess I don't need to ask them which they prefer, indoors or out 8) .
Re: Jumping fences I agree with Jules - there is nothing wrong with dogs being outside in an area with a warm, dry kennel area, but that leaving them alone for long periods of time is pretty cruel really, considering they are such social creatures. I know in Australia lots of dogs are outdoor dogs - they sleep outside, although they may well be family pets. Nothing wrong with that, either. I think that one big cultural difference between the UK and the US (and I don't mean the people on here; you are all good, caring dog owners) is that many people in the USA simply do not walk their dogs. AT ALL. EVER. The dogs are in the yard, often they sleep in the house and interact with the family when they are out in the yard - but walking the dog is just not as common as it is in the UK. So the dogs are completely under socialized and really don't know how to behave - which makes taking them out even more of a minefield. When I lived in Boston I was absolutely shocked at the number of dogs that were either chained up, or else just living outside in the yard - not that the people thought they were being cruel, it was just the normal thing to do. Our next door neighbors (very nice people) had a tiny little pug-like creature who lived outside. We started taking him out for walks (we had to buy a lead first, they didn't own one for him) and he was so unfit I thought he was going to have a heart attack just walking down the road. :'(
Re: Jumping fences Wow, that's bad. Definitely the norm to walk your dog in Australia!! All the dogs I know sleep inside too.
Re: Jumping fences It may be that out in the country it's more normal, Rachael. Certainly my parents (who had a small farm in Australia for about 10 years) had their dogs sleeping outside. They always told me it was normal - the dogs had a nice warm barn to sleep in, and were definitely pets, but they didn't come inside. They were walked a lot though! And I don't mean to say that NO dogs in the US are walked, of course they are. But I think the 'yard dog' phenomenon is far more prevalent than in the UK.
Re: Jumping fences [quote author=Jules link=topic=4751.msg59100#msg59100 date=1394181706] Dogs like and need company and if their family member leave them for any amount of time, they prefer to be where that family usually lives, which in UK is usually inside the house. [/quote] Good point. On the walking point, also a bit shocked by Karen's description of dogs not leaving their gardens. But do we overdo the importance of "the walk" sometimes? I was poorly a while back (just a rotten cold) and didn't want to take Charlie out, really. But I did, because the thought of him not getting his walk was just too much! Mind, that's probably because I didn't want him to feel "upset" rather than I thought it would do him any real harm to miss his "round the block before bed".
Re: Jumping fences Yes, I meant city dogs In country areas it is definitely different. Dogs are mostly outside in a kennel in the country.
Re: Jumping fences For me it's twofold....dog theft is definitely an issue in our area and our garden is not secure and secondly I think the social aspect of a dogs life is extremely important for its wellbeing. I don't believe putting your dog in the garden negates the need for social interaction during the day. I'd be interested on how people with more than one dog view their dogs need for company. How much do other dogs provide company for each other or do the dogs still need us around in the day?
Re: Jumping fences [quote author=bbrown link=topic=4751.msg59131#msg59131 date=1394185289] I'd be interested on how people with more than one dog view their dogs need for company. How much do other dogs provide company for each other or do the dogs still need us around in the day? [/quote] I have five dogs and all much prefer my company, to the company of the other dogs. The odd one out is a very independent sort, who'd be quite happy to spend some time on her own, I think, but she still seeks me out for cuddles and to play with...It's just more "when she feels like it" than like the others who want to be with me all the time. They do all love to go out and meet their friends for a walk/game/chase about though and the independent one loves going to new places to meet and greet all and sundry and make new friends. Having multiple dogs, I do find I feel less guilty about leaving them all for an hour or two, knowing they have each other to curl up with.
Re: Jumping fences [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4751.msg59128#msg59128 date=1394184873] On the walking point, also a bit shocked by Karen's description of dogs not leaving their gardens. But do we overdo the importance of "the walk" sometimes? [/quote] I think a daily walk isn't just about exercise, it's about giving the dog time and space to Be A Dog ; to go sniff, mark, interact with other dogs, etc, etc. I do try to get mine out every day, but occasionally there is the odd day when this simply isn't possible. I don't think they suffer because their routine has been changed, or because they haven't had their doggy down time, however, having three Duracell Bunny Poodles, does mean it can get a bit bonkers in here if they haven't burnt off their energy on a run :lol: . I don't feel guilty though if they don't go out for a day, as to be honest, they have pretty damn good lives for the vast, vast majority of the time, with all their needs well and truly catered for. 8) As for dogs who never go out, I think it's far more common in the UK than many think. Just on this little estate alone, I can think of a handful of dogs who rarely get taken for a walk and two dogs who live in a back yard, who have never been outside, except when they've escaped . You only have to look at the sudden influx of on lead, undersocialised dogs who make an appearance in the country parks in the summer months, to know they don't get out much for most of the year :-\
Re: Jumping fences [quote author=Karen link=topic=4751.msg59126#msg59126 date=1394184745] And I don't mean to say that NO dogs in the US are walked, of course they are. But I think the 'yard dog' phenomenon is far more prevalent than in the UK. [/quote] I would agree with you, Karen. We spent two years living in Missouri, where yard dogs were very common. Some of these yard dogs had NO interaction with their owners at all. There were two kept in a wire run at the top of our hill, who had automatic food and water dispensers and were outdoors all day, every day. Bizarrely, there was a cocker spaniel who was the 'house dog' at the same address - he rarely made it outside. Others had yard dogs that were kept on chains, as fenced properties were not that common (underground electric fencing however was). As we were just outside of the city limits, it was also permissible to let your dog roam free. My neighbours had the most wonderful little dog with a small body and a massive personality, known to just about everybody on our estate. 'Self-exercise' was a big concept - leave the dog to do it itself. Then there were the people with dogs that lived indoors with the family, and who took them out for exercise, following the pattern that we might see as 'normal'. But it's also worth remembering that there were NO sidewalks / pavements, and walking anywhere was seen as being a little odd... I think that, no matter where you live, it's a case of 'it takes all sorts'. But those 'all sorts' do vary geographically, and we all have examples of both good and bad practice. Clare
Re: Jumping fences It is interesting to see the differences. There are dogs who are outside all the time here, even in our very extreme weather. They would have insulated and/or heated dog houses, though, and heated water bowls in the winter to keep the water from freezing. Many of these dogs would live on acreages or farms, and these properties, on the whole, are not fenced. Most dogs stick close to their house, but of course there are also many who are struck by vehicles. And as far as dog-napping, it is these farm/acreage dogs who are the ones who get stolen, rather than the town dogs in the back yards. Much easier to drive up to an acreage where there is no one home and no one to see you loading the dog up and taking it away.
