I continue to struggle with this. It seems to me a different proposition to all the other training I have done. With 'Sit' etc I have been telling her what I wanted. With jumping up I am trying to stop a behaviour before it starts. I have had no success with the clicker. I found it difficult to coordinate click, treat and dog. All my training has been positive and we have been successful. I have trained 'Sit' and ''Wait' (for my next command or your release word). An alternate is "Paw", she has always loved giving her paw and sits quietly while you massage her foot with your thumb. But she seems unable to contain her excitement and breaks. I also have difficulty with counter cruising. She knows that she isn't supposed to put her paws on the counter, frequently she plonks her paws on the counter and is getting down before I even have the chance to say anything. I recently observed her in the kitchen, her paws came up, then, as if she realised she shouldn't do it her paws went down. Then they came up again and went down again. She looked like a demented rocking horse. Do I need to change my command? Keep plugging away , as with most training. Is this something that maturity will take care of?
Re: Jumping up I don't think there is a lot to be doing about the counter surfing - apart from to make sure they get no rewards. Charlie does it when I start to chop up his treats. He jumps up. I stop chopping the treats, then he sits back down and waits for me to finish to get the end bit. It's no big deal, I just buy extra flash wipes. ;D ;D ;D I have to say, I don't much care about the little bit of jumping up I have left - shock, horror. Charlie does it quite gently, and not that often. I did used to be a bit of a nightmare, frantic, jump, jump, jump, which was annoying and I did have to tackle as he couldn't do that after his knee op....here is what I did: [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3762.msg42744#msg42744 date=1387803984] I have a lead on Charlie, and I'm stood at the back of the kitchen. Exciting person comes in front door, I C&T for Charlie keeping his feet still. If he moves, person goes back out of the door. Then person comes into sight. C&T for feet still. Person takes one step, C&T for feet still. If Charlie moves his feet, person takes a step back. etc. etc. Until the person walks right up to Charlie, and pretends to have a conversation with me. And so on. It took 3 goes for the dog walker to be able to walk up to him without him moving, and another 3 for the exciting friend, and just 2 for my dad. I'm roping everyone in now. And no-one, no-one at all, gets to him without this routine. Next week, I'll try to do it with him off lead, but behind a barrier and then progress until I can say "sit" and he won't move as people walk up to him. It's a really faff, and I wish I'd been stricter when he was tiny. But it is working. I have no choice but to be 100% consistent with it though, as the future of his quality of life depends on me being able to control him after he has had his operation. I'm not sure I would have the motivation to do this otherwise. (I'm not too fussed by a dog that jumps up only time to time, it's when dogs do it repeatedly I find it annoying). [/quote]
Re: Jumping up Thanks Julie. Very much what I have been doing since December 13 when you first gave me the advice It is improving. I just want it to improve or die away faster. I guess that it is ( as with all other dog training) a case of persistence and consistency. I will plod on. You have reassured me that I'm doing the right thing.
Re: Jumping up If you are doing that...when does she jump up? If you have her on lead and people back away if she moves...so what opportunity does she have to jump?
Re: Jumping up A friend of mine uses the more positive "paws on the floor" as a training command. I'm not entirely sure a dog can differentiate between that and "no jumping" which is what I use. But, perhaps, the use of the word "no" is a factor...!? Not sure. ??? When we were toilet training I used the "do your business" command and when I'd worn it out with no effect, I changed the word. I'm not sure of the psychology of changing the command, but at the time I thought that if it was having no effect, I should start with a blank slate and use a new word. I have no idea if it was the change of command or just repeatedly going out in the garden that finally got us trained! I do think it's hard to get a lab to stop jumping. Personally, I'm going to keep going because Bonnie has ma-hooos-ive paws and I can see her growing into a big girl that no one wants jumping up at them!
Re: Jumping up [quote author=Bonnie link=topic=9971.msg145232#msg145232 date=1424639782] A friend of mine uses the more positive "paws on the floor" as a training command. I'm not entirely sure a dog can differentiate between that and "no jumping" which is what I use. But, perhaps, the use of the word "no" is a factor...!? Not sure. ??? [/quote] I'm never quite sure of the concept of putting "no jumping" or "paws on the floor" on cue - it is awfully vague to the dog. I can see why a proofed sit would work, but putting "don't do X" on cue seems to me to be a very difficult thing to do altogether. Leave it (as in turn away from a visitor) is clearer I guess. So I think a negative punishment (removal of the visitor, which is what the dog wants to get to) is the clearest thing to do. Charlie never jumps up at me - and the reason is very simple. I say hello to him with my face at his height (and I don't mind if he licks my ears). Which is his motivation for jumping in the first place.
Re: Jumping up When visitors arrive I usually know they are coming, see them coming down the path, pop Molly on her lead, open the front door and retreat to the far end of the hall where her mat is (about 15 feet). I get her to 'Sit'. Sometimes I have quite a few visitors at once. I encourage them to just go into the dining room and ignore Molly. Some are dog people and want to greet her and come over at this point she generally looses it. When my daughter and Grandchildren come I leave treats on the front step and they advance and retreat in accordance with Molly's behaviour. For reasons known only to herself, Molly often chooses to lay down for this. Obviously, what is in it for Molly is that she gets the treats when she's managed to keep her bum on the floor. If she steps off the mat and onto the laminate floor she has no traction and scrabbles around like a cartoon dog. This I think winds her up. I am also pleased and, I guess excited, to see my visitors (big soft kid) I think she feeds on that. After the chaos of greeting I usually put her in her crate for while to allow people to settle in. She is quite happy in her crate and when I let her out will scurry around a bit but the jumping up phase appears to be past. She quite likes to sit and present her paw, so sometimes we do that as an alternate behaviour. She understands and responds to "On your mat" It is not all bad. Last week I saw the postman approaching, gave her a very casual 'Sit' and she sat and waited quietly while I took the post from him. My previous dogs were enthusiastic greeters too and usually vanquished to the kitchen when visitors arrived, though were soon released to join everybody. I would like to train Molly that her friendliness is best expressed by sitting quietly when visitors arrive. I'll work on hanging up their coats for them next week.
Re: Jumping up We have been a bit useless with arriving visitors, and certainly wish had spent more time reinforcing this when Monty was younger and smaller - for 6 months we accepted everyone loved him and couldn't wait to fuss him as he was just so irresistible... now 28 kilos of 5 foot lab in your face is less of a draw.. As far as the counter surfing goes, I live with a little of this and don't feel this is a worthy battle to fight, and have got pretty good at making sure nothing is grabbable. However if we tell him to sit back down on the kitchen floor, often on his bed, he will get a treat, never when he is counter surfing (unless we have been a bit negligent - to him a treat is a tupperware bowl to chew or cellophane wrapper vaguely smelling of some food)
Re: Jumping up Tina, everything you are doing with Molly sounds good, apart from this bit: [quote author=Mollly link=topic=9971.msg145244#msg145244 date=1424649549] Sometimes I have quite a few visitors at once. I encourage them to just go into the dining room and ignore Molly. Some are dog people and want to greet her and come over at this point she generally looses it. [/quote] I think if the strategy is that visitors disappear when she moves, that's got to be consistently applied. If, actually, sometimes visitors approach and she gets fussed for "loosing it", well....
Re: Jumping up Good point. Something I hadn't thought about as it seems mean to deprive both dog and person of the chance to meet. The other side of that coin, as is in another thread, I want to give her the chance to decide to remain seated. I think that, excluding human and canine safety issues, you do need to give them the chance to do things, if no,t how are you ever going to train them NOT to. And I always hope that THIS is the time she is finally going to greet guests properly. Wagging tail, smiley face, paws on floor. I guess I should sign this post "The Eternal Optomist"
Re: Jumping up [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9971.msg145235#msg145235 date=1424640841] [quote author=Bonnie link=topic=9971.msg145232#msg145232 date=1424639782] A friend of mine uses the more positive "paws on the floor" as a training command. I'm not entirely sure a dog can differentiate between that and "no jumping" which is what I use. But, perhaps, the use of the word "no" is a factor...!? Not sure. ??? [/quote] I'm never quite sure of the concept of putting "no jumping" or "paws on the floor" on cue - it is awfully vague to the dog. I can see why a proofed sit would work, but putting "don't do X" on cue seems to me to be a very difficult thing to do altogether. Leave it (as in turn away from a visitor) is clearer I guess. So I think a negative punishment (removal of the visitor, which is what the dog wants to get to) is the clearest thing to do. Charlie never jumps up at me - and the reason is very simple. I say hello to him with my face at his height (and I don't mind if he licks my ears). Which is his motivation for jumping in the first place. [/quote] For us the issues isn't in the house, we have that down quite nicely. The issues is out on walks. When she's over-excited and meets another dog she will invariably jump up at the dog's owner. I use the "no jumping" command as a warning as she waggles off to meet the oncoming friend. This works with cyclists and people walking by themselves, but as soon as another dog is in the picture she's just too excited to heed the command. She knows the command, she just gets too excited. I think we'll get there eventually. I feel I need a command that doesn't rely on the other person's behaviour. The amount of people who say, "no, no, it's fine, I don't mind her jumping" and I think -.... you will when she's bigger!!! :
Re: Jumping up I was thinking about all this last night....and my own frustration with an exuberant young lab who wants to meet EVERYONE, give licks and kisses, sniff crotches :-[ , jump up, etc.... When on a lead on a walk in town, I can usually sometimes get her to sit if the person is just walking past and not making googly eyes at her... but if ultimately the person wants to touch her (who wouldn't....she's ADROABLE ;D ;D ;D ) it's a wild puppy lunging at the end of her leash and under absolutely NO control. :-[ So I got to thinking about what the ultimate goal was - for her to completely ignore people walking by on the street, and when it is an appropriate time to meet and greet....that I'd like her to sit calmly and wait to be invited, and then when she is to calmly and politely accept a greeting of a pat or scratch behind the ears, without licking/jumping/crotch sniffing. 8) So I then started to think about how to break it down effectively and how to train specific interim skills (aka shaping?) and get each particular skill mastered before worrying about how to string them all together for my ultimate gold medal swan dive performance. ;D ;D So on a walk (on lead) I need: focus on me, not the distraction (person/s walking near) sit quietly while they pass (non dog people) or walk to heel while they pass - which means I need to train/establish a reliable heel position first : When on a walk, on lead, and greeting a person is acceptable I need: Sit calmly waiting for permission from me CALM/Steady wait Release to say hello CALM greeting to individual When greeting in general 4 paws on the floor sit calmly and wait for release calm greeting to individual So....I think the key skills I need to focus on and work to proof: SIT/STAY/RELEASE 4 paws on the floor Heel position Check in with me on a walk Sound like a reasonable break down???
Re: Jumping up Maisie doesn't always jump up, and she actually does voluntarily offer a sit sometimes (it's absolutely adorable, she sees someone she wants to say hi to, and sits down with her tag wagging furiously) but if they don't approach her quick enough she wants to go to them. I need to work on her ignoring other people BUT I have trained somewhat of a "check in with me" when you see a distraction. What I did was: - reward EVERY check in when approaching a distraction, and mark it with a "yes!" then treat (if you use a clicker, you could use a click here?) - if she isn't checking in voluntarily, make a noise, or say her name, then make noises, to get her attention and mark and reward that - I also reward check ins randomly on the walk, when she turns to look at me, although not every time and when we're not approaching a distraction this is not marked Maisie checks in with me ALLLLL the time from this. If she isn't finding her surroundings very interesting, she walks beside me and stares up at me, waiting for a treat. She usually does do a quick check in with me when approaching other people/dogs/other distractions.
Re: Jumping up It's been really easy with Gypsy when we are out and about - I just put my best school teacher voice on and say "She's learning to ignore you, please ignore her." I can't have her checking in on me as she has to walk ahead and keep her eyes open for obstacles, then slow down when she sees one. It has worked, she walks with super poise and concentration on the job in hand. At home it's a totally different story. She's a terror for jumping all over visitors. I have taken to throwing a handful of kibble on the floor as people walk in, then putting the Kong wobbler down with kibble in - that defuses most of the craziness and I can then start to make sure her feet stay down.
Re: Jumping up [quote author=Bonnie link=topic=9971.msg145470#msg145470 date=1424772216] I use the "no jumping" command as a warning as she waggles off to meet the oncoming friend. This works with cyclists and people walking by themselves, but as soon as another dog is in the picture she's just too excited to heed the command. She knows the command, she just gets too excited. I think we'll get there eventually. [/quote] How exactly, though, have you trained the cue "no jumping"? What does it mean the dog should do? Have you trained it as a cue to mean turn away from a person? If that's the case, then you have to proof "turn away from a person" just like any other cue. And to be honest, why not just use your recall, or "here"? That stops you having more cues than you need for the same action. If though, you have done it by a cross voice, then it has the same effect as a "No!", which is a very difficult thing to proof as it doesn't give the dog an alternative behaviour. So it's difficult to know where you go with the cue "no jumping".
Re: Jumping up [quote author=Boogie link=topic=9971.msg145584#msg145584 date=1424805505] At home it's a totally different story. She's a terror for jumping all over visitors. [/quote] WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!! The perfect Miss Gypsy is a jumping terror??!?!?!? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I feel just a tiny bit better now!!!
Re: Jumping up We are working on "At me", as in look me in the eyes and hold my gaze.. We are quite good at it at home or in quiet places when we are out but she struggles if there is a distraction. So tons more proofing or practice is needed. The plan is that it will give her another positive behaviour to go to. I'd rather give her something to do than try to stop her doing something I don't want her to do. We had a bit of success last week. She held my gaze while 30 teenage boys wearing football boots clomped across the pavement behind her. No doubt the nutty woman pointing at the side of her head (hand signal) and staring a dog in the eyes amused them.
Re: Jumping up The Kong wobbler sounds a good idea. Wispa still jumps very enthusuastically at visitors, particularly those she knows and likes. It's 'work in progress' to change her behaviour, as my youngest son always encouraged the excitement when she was a puppy. Unfortunately puppies grow and other people don't appreciate 25kg of lab leaping at them! The one thing that makes her back off is showing her the squirty plant spray bottle, as suggested by the puppy trainer when she was little. Although she loves water, she's not keen on it being sprayed in her direction. Just the sight of the bottle usually calms her down!
Re: Jumping up last night when I went to pick up Bella from hubby at the winery- always a super exciting time for her...seeing me at the end of the day....I walked in armed with a handful of kibble treats....and as she came close, I tossed kibbles one at a time on the floor and kept saying "no jumping please" the whole time...it took her a bit to calm down...but she did stop the jumping eventually and then sat for me to clip her lead on. I think I will continue with the kibble in hand greetings for a few days and then ask hubby to start carrying kibbles in his pocket for when he gets home too - as she does a super exciting thing to him too. I think if I can get her to quit jumping at US...perhaps it's ground work for not jumping at others too...will require some proofing certainly....but maybe a good start.... :
Re: Jumping up [quote author=sunsetpines link=topic=9971.msg145638#msg145638 date=1424814626] [quote author=Boogie link=topic=9971.msg145584#msg145584 date=1424805505] At home it's a totally different story. She's a terror for jumping all over visitors. [/quote] WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!! The perfect Miss Gypsy is a jumping terror??!?!?!? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I feel just a tiny bit better now!!! [/quote] Yep! Even the Kong wobbler didn't work when my friend came round today, I had to resort to putting her lead on.
