Re: Kibble - what's in it? What about those cow's hooves? And the elk antlers? How are they on teeth? Simba likes both those (okay he likes just about anything :) And what about those bones you buy in pet stores (mainly beef, I think) that are smoked/cooked? Simba likes those too.... I feed him a pretty good kibble, I think - at least he seems to be doing well on it. It's not the most expensive but not the cheapest either. However....have to say....I remind myself often that children around the world are starving to death every day and so I try never to get TOO wrapped up in what my dog is eating, if you know what I mean....
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Those smoked bones in pet stores are freeze dried, not cooked. Theoretically they are 'raw', but I would say that the drying process would still harden them. I just avoid the cow leg bone versions. You can get kangaroo tail versions here and Obi gets those now and then. They seem to be pretty easy to crunch through. I have an antler and personally I think that it is too hard. I haven't chucked it out but Obi never gets it. Bear in mind that I am more paranoid than the average person about dog teeth!!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? That article is very interesting - the main recommendation is not to feed bones at all, really. More food for thought!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? The current advice from the British Veterinary Dental Association is that to avoid tooth damage you shouldn't give anything so hard that you can't make a dent in it with your thumbnail. I've got rid of all our hard recreational chew stuff on the back of this recommendation much to the annoyance of the dogs!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Blummin heck.....spent £15 on one of those antler things yesterday.....still got the receipt though!!I was going back today anyway! Rachael,you are so careful with Obi,makes it really unfair about his chipped his teeth.....hope he's been ok this week. As I've mentioned before,despite really helpful,careful ,encouraging advice from members I'm just too scared to give Dexter a bone.....I am a dedicated toothbrush teeth cleaner though
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Yeah, I am bummed about it, Angela... Obi seems fine but he is hesitant to eat anything cold. We have to warm up his BARF patties after defrosting. He should be all good after Saturday though
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I do wish that the BVDA would do some actual clinical studies on this subject. There is such a dearth of evidence. My dogs and thousands like them munch their way through rabbit and chicken carcasses every day and have done for years, without any tooth damage at all. I am pretty sure I cannot dent a raw rabbit or chicken leg bone with my thumbnail. It is so frustrating that we have no evidence on this issue. With regard to cleaning teeth, my dogs have never had their teeth cleaned. They are aged 1, 6, 7 and 9. And have no signs of gum disease. Nor have they ever had their teeth cleaned under general anaesthetic. A practice now recommended to take place on an annual basis by the American Veterinary Association. I cannot see how it can be 'right' to subject an animal to annual GA when a change in diet will resolve the problem of periodontal disease. In fact, I think it is appalling that such a procedure should be recommended without researching into alternative (such as a diet of raw meaty bones) I am well aware that my own experiences are anecdotal and don't constitute any kind of 'proof', but so many people share these experiences now, a proper study is indicated and is well overdue. I'll get off my soapbox now Pippa
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I think the main issue the BVDA has is the use of recreational beef bones/antlers/hard plastic flavoured chews etc rather than the softer carcases of rabbits/chickens fed as a main meal. They have a large series of tooth injuries (mainly slab fractures of carnassial teeth) documented with the use of such recreational bones , antlers etc which I believe someone is planning to publish early next year.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Sorry Lochan, not meaning to have a go at you We really appreciate your input. That will be interesting. I don't actually use, or recommend that people feed, recreational bones, and do wonder if they contribute to cases of intestinal blockage. Again, no evidence is the main problem.... And of course, lots of people swear by them, and they do keep dogs happy for hours on end. I think it is very hard for people to know what to do.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? [quote author=editor link=topic=2508.msg25200#msg25200 date=1378899120] I think it is very hard for people to know what to do. [/quote] Well I'm certainly none the wiser I do know that the vet said Riley's teeth were "fine" but I'm not sure if that's with a view to her cleaning them at some point(we're heading back in 4 weeks, will ask better questions then!) He currently gets rawhide and is most likely to stay on a kibble based diet. How best to ensure he has good teeth? Teaching him to have his teeth brushed now could be interesting or should I introduce some element of bone and if so how best to do so?
Re: Kibble - what's in it? The antlers have been a lifeline for me! Oh well... Time to try the beef pizzles then (on Charlie!) and do a tooth brushing training session.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? [quote author=editor link=topic=2508.msg25200#msg25200 date=1378899120] Sorry Lochan, not meaning to have a go at you We really appreciate your input. That will be interesting. I don't actually use, or recommend that people feed, recreational bones, and do wonder if they contribute to cases of intestinal blockage. Again, no evidence is the main problem.... And of course, lots of people swear by them, and they do keep dogs happy for hours on end. I think it is very hard for people to know what to do. [/quote] No worries Pippa I didn't think for a minute you were having a go! Certainly the referral dentist we use sees slab fractures of carnassials once-twice per week and virtually all are associated with recreational bones/antlers/hard plastic chews. I've just emailed him and he does not recognise this issue with the feeding of chicken or rabbit carcasses. it seems to be the action of getting something large and very hard between their back teeth and bearing down with the carnassials that causes the problem. As you say, I think it is very hard for people to know what to do and I suspect a lot of the advice given by dental specialists is given by people who don't own labradors and don't realise the importance of keeping their little furry mouths and minds busy! I've started using a smear of bovril or marmite on safestix with my two - they'll chew them for ages then with no damage to them or safestix. And kongs of course. It seems at least part of the dental protection from chewing is the production of plenty of saliva which helps keep periodontal conditions under control, and licking/chewing at frozen kongs and safestix certainly produces plenty of saliva! A confession too - with my last three dogs they have all been kibble fed and have all had perfect teeth and I have never once cleaned them myself either with a toothbrush or at work as a dental procedure (don't tell the nurses at work though about my shoddy lack of dental care.....). As far as what goes in to kibble or canned dog food - way back in the 1980's when I was a student, a certain very famous dog food manufacturer took all of the final year students to see their dog food factory. All of the meat was classified fit for human consumption and the men working on the canning line reckoned it was better quality than the meats going into canned meatballs for people. To the extent they would open random tins from the line and eat them for breakfast/lunch.....apparently the rabbit flavour were the nicest.....
Re: Kibble - what's in it? It certainly IS very hard to know what to do....especially with dogs who really need to chew. I did buy some (frozen) raw bones at the pet store yesterday....first time for me! But, like all of the bones I give Simba, all of these will be recreational chews....the raw diet is not for us, at least not at this point. I will say that I fed my previous dog on kibble that was marketed as "dental" - the bits were quite a bit larger than regular kibble and manufactured so as to "clean" the teeth as he ate. He had wonderfully clean teeth as long as we were able to buy that - unfortunately the manufacturers don't make that variety any more.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Very useful info Lochan - thanks so much. [quote author=Lochan link=topic=2508.msg25211#msg25211 date=1378902674] As far as what goes in to kibble or canned dog food - way back in the 1980's when I was a student, a certain very famous dog food manufacturer took all of the final year students to see their dog food factory. All of the meat was classified fit for human consumption and the men working on the canning line reckoned it was better quality than the meats going into canned meatballs for people. To the extent they would open random tins from the line and eat them for breakfast/lunch.....apparently the rabbit flavour were the nicest..... [/quote] I've just emailed the makers of the kibble I use to ask about the standards, quality and sources of the animal products - let's see whether I get an answer!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? I'll be interested to hear what they say, Julie! And you wouldn't catch me eating canned meatballs... sounds disgusting!!
Re: Kibble - what's in it? Ditto Karen. Someone recommended I try the tinned chilli from Lidls. I did buy a can but couldn't bring myself to eat it and threw it out.
Re: Kibble - what's in it? [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=2508.msg25245#msg25245 date=1378916771] Ditto Karen. Someone recommended I try the tinned chilli from Lidls. I did buy a can but couldn't bring myself to eat it and threw it out. [/quote] Think I would rather eat the dog food
Re: Kibble - what's in it? God Jade...the camping news just gets worse! you are a great sport.....I'd have been wailing! X
