Hello everyone, I know there are other threads that are related to what I'm about to discuss. However, I'm just looking for a little support for my situation. I got my lab mix (Pit, it's debatable) when he was two months old (currently 6 months), my first dog ever. I know there have been mistakes on my end from the beginning that causing some of his behavior issues, but I'm trying to work on them. He's hyper active, but a quick learner. We've been through intro puppy training (sit, stay, down, come, leave it, heel). He was a big biter for the first few months (drove me absolutely crazy), he still bites occasionally but it's not as bad now. The big thin is now is dealing with his "hyper activity". Recently, we would go for 2-3 mile walks before entering the dog park, but he would still burst into the dog park with so much energy. I know puppies are naturally energetic but geeeeeeez lol. I work FT and day care isn't an option every day. How much do you all exercise your lab pups? I know he needs plenty of exercise but I don't want to over do it because I know his body is still developing. Also, I feel like he ignores me when I'm giving him commands. How can I fix this? More formal training? I'm continuing to work with him at home, but what should my expectations be for a young pup? I'm trying to be a calm leader (been reading Cesar books and watching his shows), but sometimes I get frustrated and I don't want that to have a negative affect on my pup. With all this said, my pup is very sweet when he wants to be, I'm attached to the guy so I really want this to work out and for him to be a well mannered lab. Any words of encouragement, suggestions, criticisms are appreciated.
Hello and welcome. Although it's common for puppies to be hyper-active at times, it may be that your puppy is overstimulated, as it's important for him to have plenty of down time too. A 2 - 3 mile walk is quite a lot for a young puppy, particularly if it's immediately followed by playing in the dog park. The guideline for length of walks is five minutes for each month, so 30 minutes for a six month old. Formal training is also best done in short sessions. Just make the most of those brief periods of concentration and don't feel you have to pack everything into the time you have available. It sounds as if you're building up a good bond with him, which is really important. Good luck!
Hi @L.Graham, welcome to the forum. Firstly I have to say there will be people coming along offering advice far wiser and knowledgeable than me but here is my two pennorth, for what it's worth. I'm wondering if your boy is bored? If you are working full-time maybe he gets left alone for long periods and is lacking mental stimulation? Training him, teaching tricks, playing games, can all provide mental stimulation which can tire dogs out as much as physical activity. There is a general rule of thumb about exercising puppies for 5 mins for every month of their lives because too much hard walking can put pressure on their still developing joints and still growing bones. (Apologies if I'm telling you what you already know). 2-3 miles prior to a burst of exercise in the dog park sounds like quite a lot of exercise? If your pup is bimbling around, sniffing, exploring, enjoying sights, sounds and smells at his own pace then you can relax the 5 minute rule a bit but walking on lead, at our pace, possibly on pavements, can place more pressure on them. My pup is 8 months and probably gets 10 mins each way walking to and from the park/woods on a lead then about 30 mins ambling through the woods, twice a day. Sometimes I worry that's a bit much. I'm always worrying about her activity levels! Sometimes we drive to a place and spend the whole walk off lead at her pace so I walk for longer with her, but I wouldn't know what mileage we tot up. I don't know much about Cesar Milan but I know he is very unpopular on this forum and that many of his theories are disproved. On the forum the methods we use to train our dogs are positive and force free and I think Cesar Milan is opposite to this? Like I say, I don't know much about him but others will and can speak more knowledgeably than me about him and his methods. In essence it seems to me that your boy is probably a normal, spirited lab (cross) who might benefit from less free activity and more mental stimulation in the form of games/training etc.
Hi and welcome! There are some really good trainers on the forum (not professional but maybe some should be, lol) who probably will answer so I'll leave that to them. I'll just say on the energy front, a lot of that is age and breed. It will be down to you to channel that and, sorry to say, just figure out a way to enjoy having such high energy dog. But it will get better the older he gets and the more you work with him. I come from a Rottie background (ergo my avatar) and came to the forum to research Labradors as the next breed for me. I'm used to very calm dogs (Rotties) and know from being in obedience and agility classes with Labs that they can be absolute wackos when they are young. Great dogs, but I always thought, "Oooo nooooo, not for ME". But they do chill out - bearing in mind that 8-18 months are probably the hardest time energy and training-wise. You also say he's likely a pit mix. I had a pit mix rescue from 8 years until she passed away at 16 years old. I used to think when she was eight that thank goodness I didn't get her earlier in her life as I could have never handled her. We would do three hour hikes when she was ten years old and she STILL would run in crazy circles around the back garden when we got home. Just to say that if your Lab is a bit Pit too, he may be "supercharged". From my pittie experience and a recent experience with a very high energy foster dog, here is what I learned that may help you. First, physical exercise before mental exercise. That means a good play or other physical activity that suits your pup's growing bones at his age (longer runs have to wait until he's fully grown unfortunately). This will help him concentrate on the other stuff, which is mental exercise, which actually can "tire out" a dog more then the physical stuff. Obedience, scent games...whatever floats your boat. The combo is the key, because a dog with that much energy you are simply never going to tire out with physical exercise. Also on the "hyper" stuff - I found out with my little tornado foster dog that he would actually revert to what I would call "naughtiness" if he got too mentally tired. His body could go forever, but if I'd overdone it with the "brain" stuff, he'd start jumping, nipping and acting like a general wacko. I never realised this was a thing, so it was really interesting to me...and I learned when it happened, it was time to go home and have some quiet time! Finally, it is totally normal at this age (doggie "teen years") that he not listen to you or need to relearn commands. A lot of people here on the forum talk about it and the advice is always the same: redial and start teaching again at square one. Again - this is normal, your dog is normal. Re: Cesar Milan, I used to be a big fan as well. As @Plum's mum mention, he is pretty much persona non grata around here. Without getting into the nitty gritty, the biggest detriment in your situation is that CM is not (by his own admission) a dog trainer and his books/shows don't offer any practical techniques for actually working with your dog. He preaches exercise (great) and dominance (not so great), but nothing to actually give your dog the tools he needs to share your life. It may be helpful to you to step away from CM for the time being and look into trainers with positive reinforcement techniques. Lots for free on YouTube (Ian Dunbar, Stonnie Dennis, Zak George) and some good books that were recommended to me here on the forum are "Control Unleashed" and "The Other End of the Leash". And of course Pippa's books. Good luck and hope to hear more on how it goes!
Throw away the Cesar Milan book. The man is a bully and a thug. He "trains" through fear and intimidation, using physical and emotional abuse. No, stay well clear of him. He may get what look like results, but he is generally suppressing the problem, and it will come out ten times worse down the line. He's a dangerous man and should be kept off the television. Anyone who promotes ideas of "pack", being the "alpha", "dominance" and so on is outdated and best avoided. It has been shown that the single study that those assumptions were built on was seriously flawed - and, even if it hadn't been, should never have been extrapolated to the relationships between dogs and humans. Have a look at the articles on the sister site here, www.thelabradorsite.com. They're free to access and based around modern behavioural science. Here's one to get you started: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/dog-dominance/ Don't feel bad about it - this has been a very persuasive idea for so long, and many, many "trainers" still haven't moved on to modern methods, especially, it seems, in the US. You'll find that often what we call "traditional" trainers (those that still use force and punishment) will look down on force-free methods. You may hear things like "you're only bribing the dog" if you choose to use treats, but it's just not true and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the process. "Ignoring" your cues (we prefer "cues" rather than "commands", because it puts the emphasis where it belongs - on the trainer rather than the student) is perfectly normal. You need to go through a process of "proofing". This means, starting teaching the behaviour in a really easy environment with few distractions, and gradually building on the difficulty. We have three pillars of difficulty - Duration, Distraction and Distance. When you make one harder, you make the other two easier, setting your dog up for success and gradually pushing him into slightly harder scenarios. So, for a sit, you would either ask him to sit for longer, or you would ask him to sit in the presence of another dog, or you would ask him to do it farther away from you. To start with, not all three together. A distraction is also a lot more of a distraction when it's closer, so those two things sometimes combine. That is, your puppy may be able to practice a behaviour when there is another dog 100m away, but not be able to when the dog is 10m away. It's all perfectly normal and just needs practice. If your dog isn't doing what you're asking, it's either because he isn't sufficiently motivated (what's your reinforcement history?) or he doesn't/can't understand. Dogs don't generalise well, so sometimes the simplest thing like asking him to do something outside that he has only learnt to do inside, is enough for him to become unsure. They take in so much information when they are learning a new behaviour (the way you are standing, what you do with you hands and feet, the tone of your voice, the shoes you're wearing, what direction they're facing, the surface they're standing on....) that, even when you think they understand a cue, they haven't actually isolated that one single thing - a movement or a word - that you think is the cue. You'll find some of us testing this out by giving cues whilst standing on one leg, or facing away from our dogs, or laying down.... it's really quite insightful. In short, if your dog isn't performing the behaviour you're after, you shouldn't assume he's being naughty or defiant. It can be insanely frustrating, I know, believe me (I'm on my third puppy just entering adolescence), but try to take a breath and a step back and realise he's finding it hard for whatever reason, so you need to go back a step or two (or all the way to the beginning!) in your training. Good luck, be free to ask as many questions as you'd like (even challenging ones about the difference between methods) and we'll try to help.
Hello & welcome to you & your young pup. I'm glad you found us, there's loads of experience on here to help with positive, successful training methods. By the way, what's your pup's name ?
Hi and welcome to the forum. My OH was quite 'old school' in terms of dog training until I showed him how positive training works and he is now onboard with how I do it and can see the results. Mental stimulation is definately a positive thing to do. I hide teats around the house then send my girl to find them. To do this they use their noses and brains and will tire them more than an hour walk. I started off easy and left treats where she would see them, but now (nearly 4 years old) I hide them under blankets, in toys, in boxes etc. This really does make her use her brain more. I also have a few 'brain game' toys - you place treats under some flaps and they have to work out how to get the treat by lifting or moving the flaps. I also do lots of short training sessions on sit, wait, paw, going through my legs and sitting to my left or right (whichever I point to). Hope this helps a bit to tire your boy out.
Hi and thank you for the welcome! Ah, I never consider over stimulation when it comes to exercising. I was going to ask my pet exercise lengths because I don't want to over do it but I also want to make sure he's getting enough exercise. I'll cut down on the walking before the dog park though just to be on the safe side. Thanks!
Thank you for the reply! Yes, he does get left for longer periods of time while I'm at work now that he's older. I'm trying to figure out a good schedule that we can stick to that will take into consideration his growth, but will include games/tricks to go along with exercise/training. Do you have any suggestion?
Thank you for the welcome! Ahhhh, I am starting to sense that Cesar isn't well liked around here lol. I like a breed with a high energy, but I didn't think his energy would be SUPER high lol. I'm often told to be patient because it takes a couple of years for labs to calm down. I'm glad that you mentioned how their bodies can seemingly go on forever. Initially, I started off with the five minute exercise rule per month for a while. However, it would still seem like he had so much energy, that's why I started with the walks with dog park time. Now that you all mentioned exercise limits, I'm concerned about his bone development. Starting over with the basic training may be the way to go right now. I'm starting to cook up some games in my mind that I could try with him, what would you suggest?
Ommmmmg, thank you! What you're saying makes sense. There are times that I may ask him to do a basic cue in a slightly different environment and think that he should understand. For example, I just moved to a new bedroom apartment. There's a room that I left empty so we can train/play indoors. He'll sit when I tell him to 8/10 I ask while we're in there. But once we leave out of that room to go to the crate, he run off to run around my living room couch and won't sit when I say. I know there are more distractions in there, but I thought that with the treats he would listen. To answer your question, I've used mostly pet store treats as reinforcement. If there's a toy that he really likes and hasn't completely destroyed yet, then that gets used occasionally. Recently, I've taken to using small pieces of turkey meat (the sliced kind you get from the grocery store), that gets his attention quicker these days. So I have a question about treats, is there a time when I can expect to phase out the treats or can this be an ongoing thing every time he behaves correctly?
This does help a lot! At what age did you start the hide and treat game? Did your dog get easily distracted and start misbehaving in your home? If so, how did you deal with that? I can start off easy in our empty room, but at some point I want to pick up the challenge.
I have to go out now, but I just saw you comment and didn't want to forget about it - this post I just made on someone else's thread may help give you an idea. But please, feel free to ask more questions if it doesn't give you the information you're after. There's (loads) more I don't have time to write now https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/6-month-old-puppy-woes-need-help.19547/#post-299534
Hi @L. Graham and welcome. As others have said 2-3 miles walking before the dog park is a lot of exercise. Unfortunately if you build exercise you get a fit dog, not a tired dog . As a trainer / behaviourist my best advice us to ditch anything to do with CM and his methods although I will also state that he has been making approaches to some very top trainers so change may be in the air. Have you ever clicker trained before? There are some excellent training videos on you tube from Emily Larlham covering basic training which I would recommend together with a book by Jean Donaldson called 'Train like a Pro' which is excellent for covering the basics. If your dog is ignoring you when you ask him to do something it'sounds because he'said not sure what he's meant to be doing - so the advice to go back to basics.readerstore-uk@dr.sony.com. Learning is based upon repetition, then changing 'the picture' by changing location, distrance and duration but only ever one at a time . Feel free to pm me if you it would help
To be honest, I'm still learning about the games thing, too! I've not had a Lab yet and what I hear they like to do seems pretty different from my Rottie boys. Not games, but some things that I really liked training: Back up - comes in very handy in tight spots, too. Crawl under - I started easy with benches and then we graduated to chairs. Picking up their own leash - my dog's all time favourite What I like that best and what I found with my spazzy little foster dog was that what tired him out was NEW. New place, new experience, new smells. So essentially socialisation. It was much easier to tire him out by taking him to a new town, park or beach for the day and walking him around - all that NEW just wore him out. Also a good chance to practice "LAT" or "Look at that" training as he was reactive to bikes and birds. Plus I enjoyed going to those new places too, even if they weren't all that new to me.
I started hiding treats when she was about 10-12 weeks old. Initially I got my OH to hold her in the room whilst I hid the treats in front of her, then let her go and said 'go find'. She picked up really quickly what she had to do. I helped her if she couldn't find them all. Over the next few months I started hiding them when she wasn't in the room then let her in to find it them. I then upped it to hiding them under and in things. If she got a bit hyper at home I would either get her doing some basic training like sit, stand, touch the palm of my hand etc, or if I thought she was overtired I would pop her in the crate for a snooze or give her a Kong to settle her.
Thank you for responding! I haven't use a clicker before, but I've recently consider picking on up because they really seem to work for other dogs that I've seen in public.
