Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

When someone says that they leave a young puppy alone at home whilst they work all day, it often arouses strong feelings. I have started a different thread for this because I don’t want to get into a situation where we are pointing the finger at individuals on the forum or starting a ‘fight’. One of the great things about this forum is that we seem to be able to discuss things rationally without starting flame wars. And I think this is an important topic that needs addressing in that same objective way.

From the last two recent threads, it is clear that there are strong differences of opinion on whether or not a home where all family members work all day, is an appropriate environment for a small puppy, or even for any dog at all. I want to put up an article on this topic on the main website, as it is something that comes up over and over again in them comments section of many of my puppy articles. I also want to put both sides of any argument fairly, despite my own feelings on the subject. And I have to confess I personally really struggle with the idea of small puppy being left alone for the whole working day, on a regular basis.

However, I accept that many people feel this works well for them. And I do want this forum to be a place where people who are working full time and raising a puppy, can come for support and constructive advice.

It would be interesting to see if we can find a consensus, as to how much attention a puppy needs, say in the first four to six months of life, compared with when he is older. And as to what are the minimum arrangements we think someone should make for the care of their puppy whilst they are absent.

I am interested to know whether you think a puppy left alone should be crated, or in a larger puppy pen. How long you think a puppy can reasonably be shut in a crate. How many hours you think a small puppy (under 12 weeks) can reasonably be left at home alone if given access to puppy pads, and so on. What kind of 'day-care arrangements would you advise for working puppy parents.

Please can we have objective and constructive comments - many thanks

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

Thanks for starting this thread Pippa. After yesterday, I imagine most people here already know how I feel about leaving a pup for hour upon hour every day all alone. I don't suppose I'm the only one to feel as I do, it's just that I'm usually the only person with the balls to say it out loud.

What I don't understand is, when did this suddenly became an acceptable thing to do (in the eyes of some)?

When I grew up, we were told if you're out all day, don't get a dog, because dogs need company. I went without a dog for a number of years when I worked full time, even though I was desperate for one. Instead I had cats (and still do have cats). I guess with the number of dog walkers and doggy creches, it is possible now for full time workers to have a dog and for that dog to still be happy. Maybe that's why attitudes have changed. Or maybe it's just that society has become much more "I want it, so I shall have it" overall. I don't know.

Anyway, my thoughts on crating are, no young pup should be in one for more than 3 hours during the daytime, as well as overnight. Pups need to move around to develop their muscles as well as their brains. I suppose a large pen would be ok for a few hours, but yet again, not all day, as pups in a confined space alone, get bored and lonely, regardless of how many toys and chews they are left with.

Having been a Puppy Walker for Guide Dogs and having raised a good few pups of my own, I can safely say to get the best out of your pup, you need to put in HOURS and HOURS of work. Trying to squeeze all this in when you come home from work, when you're tired and have many other things to catch up on, is difficult. And having seen just how many dogs end up with serious behavioural issues because of being left alone for so long and not having the work put into raising them, I'm very guarded about telling people they will manage, especially if they don't enlist help, which is often expensive. I would imagine for every one person who makes working full time and owning a dog work well for them and their dog, there are at least 50 who fail, often resulting in the dog being sold on or put into rescue, and of course a dog who is damaged, often remains damaged for the rest of it's life .

I feel owning any animal is a privilege not a right and so we should only own them if we can do everything possible to keep them healthy and happy. If people can do this and work full time, then good for them; I know I couldn't have done it, I wouldn't have been able to afford the costs involved. If they can't provide the best life for the animal, then it's my opinion they shouldn't have it and there's nothing to debate.

I'll climb off my soapbox now.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

You raise several points Jules, which I’ll look at, and I understand how you feel. But I really do want to keep this thread practical and objective if we can.

So I’m going to ask everyone to talk about the practical aspects of leaving a puppy alone for long periods of time.

How do we think isolation affects a puppy's development, if at all? And is there any evidence for our beliefs?

As far as I know, there aren’t any studies showing for example, an increase in behavioural problems with puppies that spend long amounts of time on their own. So is it just our emotions controlling our heads when we talk about this?

I think this is partly to do with the changing economy and family structures. I was born in the fifties when fewer women worked. Therefore most dogs had a family at home with them. So we looked at this as the norm. People tend to view the 'norm' as acceptable.

Nowadays, most couples work. At least until, and often after, small children come along. And so keeping a dog in this situation is probably becoming 'the norm'.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

I'm a complete novice so I don't really have any wisdom to offer on this. But what I would say is that I had NO IDEA about the number of options open to me when we got our pup five weeks ago. Until I got a puppy, I didn't know that there were such things as dog walkers, day care, puppy sitters.... I'd never thought about checking out with local colleges about whether any vet students (or others!) might want to earn a few quid looking after a pup for a few hours a day.... I didn't know there were places you could put your dog during the day where they'd socialise and have fun while you are at work.... And yet I've discovered, much to my delight, that all these and more exist in my local area (and I live in the middle of nowhere, not in a town).

Now, personally I'm lucky and generally work from home, so the number of times we'd need to use these services is limited. But I do think that some new puppy owners might despair or think that leaving their pup alone is their only option, because they just don't know what they should be researching. Perhaps that is some advice that would be useful and welcome?

Rosie and Pongo-the-puppy

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

I am not convinced that this is the case Jules. I would think it very much depends on the substitute care that is arranged. And nowadays there are a great many facilities for doggy daycare that simply did not exist when we were young.

One of the things I'd like to do in this thread is look at all the different options for doggy day care, so that I can write about them on the main site for new puppy owners to refer to.

If you have used a dog creche, dog walkers, dog sitters etc, it would be really helpful to have your experiences gathered together in this one place.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

Thats exactly the sort of information I was looking for Rosie

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

Is that three hours total? Or three hours in one stretch?

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

Pippa - if you are looking for suggestions - we have also made friends with a couple of people who regularly walk their dogs past our house. They've said that they could IN AN EMERGENCY be our back up plan - they'd come in a pick up Pongo as they pass and give him a bit of a walk with their own dog. Obviously you need to be comfortable with 'strangers' having access to your property, but if planning to get a puppy then it might be a good idea to make a point of checking out other dog-owners nearby to see if you'd be comfortable with that sort of arrangement...

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

[quote author=editor link=topic=4970.msg62143#msg62143 date=1395306799]

How do we think isolation affects a puppy's development, if at all? And is there any evidence for our beliefs? [/quote]

We know dogs are intelligent, some would say as intelligent as a 3 year old child approximately; and we know what leaving a child alone for hours every day does to them (there have been studies in that), so what makes us think dogs are much different? Dogs are not solitary creatures. They evolved to live in packs and we have been engineered over thousands of years by us humans, to make them desire to live and work in close proximity to us. To me this means leaving them alone for long periods of time, probably has detrimental effects on them, in much the same way leaving a rabbit shut in a hutch on it's own does, or leaving a single horse in a field without any company does....or leaving a child shut in it's bedroom for hours does.

As far as I know, there aren’t any studies showing for example, an increase in behavioural problems with puppies that spend long amounts of time on their own. So is it just our emotions controlling our heads when we talk about this?
[/quote]

I'd say ask anyone who works in Rescue or go do a few hours voluntary work at a rescue kennels. There may be no official studies but the evidence is sitting there for all to see.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

I feel strongly that “everyone works full time, so you can’t possibly have a dog” is really the wrong way to think. It’s also not helpful for those who work and get a dog. This is because they just think “that’s nonsense” (which it is) “I know loads of people who work and have a dog” (which they do). And they will just ignore advice that they can’t have a dog.

There are whole industries of support services available to allow people to work and have a dog.

I got a puppy at time when I had an immense work load – and it was more hard work. But I honestly think that I managed well, and have a well-adjusted dog, who is confident, outgoing and has no fears, phobias or behaviour problems at all (he is an excitable, slightly nutty, chocolate 1 year old – I do not consider that a problem).

It is much better to give advice about being realistic about what you have to do, and how you have to arrange your life, if you have a dog and work. And also to make people aware of the costs involved and the effort involved in organising things.
The thing that does make my heart sink is when I hear people say that daycare, dog walkers and so on are too expensive. This is sad, because those people were unprepared and hadn’t done their homework before getting a puppy.

Even so, there are ways of coping on a budget – but it’s harder work. There are arrangements where you can “trade” puppy and dog care with other people. You do have to be able to “trade” time though. I did wonder whether families would trade weekends for weekdays (mums who are at home but want days out with kids at the weekends and so on). Puppy classes are the very best way to meet people who might want to have trading arrangements with you. I didn't use these, because I had no time to trade. But I listened to others setting up these things. I would have joined in if I had been able to do so.

To answer your specific questions, I think:

You have to be at home full time with a puppy of 8 weeks for at least 10 days after he arrives.

You must have a plan to get your puppy used to being alone – and put a great deal of work into building up alone time. You need to be prepared to go into mass production of frozen kongs, and leave your house and stand in the street for a minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes…

I feel quite strongly that leaving a puppy in a crate for longer than it might be able to hold pee and poo is wrong. And so I think the crate inside a pen arrangement is best. I still prefer a pen over a crate and now have a larger pen. Charlie is now only in a crate because it is safer for him as he recovers from injury.

I do not like puppy pads, but newspaper is practical. Hard washable floors are a must. I had the pen on tile floor, made anti slip with rubber backed doormats that I could put in the washing machine and throw away when they were too bad to wash. If I had to put the pen on carpet, I put a sheet of lino down and put the pen on top of that.

When Charlie was 9.5 weeks, I felt comfortable leaving him for up to 1.5 hours then moved to 2 hours. I had a puppy care service that called in and spent at hour with him, then left him alone for another 2 hours. This gave me a 5 hour window in which to be away from the house. Puppy service would take him out to the garden, play with him, refresh water, newspaper and leave him with more stuffed kongs.

He did go to the loo in his pen, usually on the newspaper, until he was about 12 weeks old – after that he was toilet trained. We worked super, super hard on toilet training – he was never in the garden alone, we never failed to reward going outside, we were super strict with pee and poo then play etc.

By the time Charlie was 5 months, I felt comfortable with him spending 7 hours alone 2 days a week. This is the maximum I think is reasonable for a pup under a year old. 3 hours alone, 1 hour puppy care, 3 hours alone. Other days I worked to keep the time alone to the 5 hour window (as above) or used all day puppy daycare or the dog walker would take him for the whole day.

Just a word on puppy daycare - a creche is the thing to look for. Free running outside day care centres will take young puppies, and I investigated three of these. Only one was set up to handle young puppies properly alongside adult dogs (with separate pens and sleep spaces). The others thought allowing a young pup to run free with the adults all day was fine. I do not.

Only one day, in the whole of the first year, my arrangements failed and I found myself legging it home between work meetings, and then back to work hoping no-one missed me.

It goes without saying that you need to pack the time when puppy isn’t alone with attention and activities. I honestly think that people can be at home with a dog 24/7 and fail to provide them with activities, and that’s worse than alone time and lots of attention otherwise.

Charlie got used to a very mixed care picture of puppy service, dog walkers, daycare and so on. More than a few times, when I had a nightmare work week, I paid for my Dad to travel down from North Yorkshire and stay with us. I do not think this did Charlie any harm whatsoever. In fact, I think it was good for him. He was often out and about with new people in new places, and his life was one long socialisation experience, with lots of changes and new experiences.

The other thing that is really important to mention for people considering this is: what are you going to do when there is an emergency? Look at my situation with Charlie. A young dog ruptures his cruiciate, and suddenly needs at least 12 periods of care throughout the day. My solution is that I can afford to ship him off to a rehabilitation centre – the insurance does not cover this. I know how lucky I am to be able to afford it. But if people are on a tight budget, and have to work, and couldn’t call on family, they would be really stuck.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

When I was a child, we had dogs. And one of them was a rescue beagle, who my mother rescued from our next door neighbours. They used to lock him in the coal shed for up to ten hours a day. Just saying leaving dogs alone all day is not a totally new phenomenon.

Personally, I would really try not to leave a small puppy alone for anything more than a couple of hours - and even then only after slowly getting the pup used to being on its own. We know how puppies feel desolate when separated - after all, their instincts tell them that if they are abandoned, they are going to die. That is why they often make such a racket the first night or so! I was lucky with Poppy, she had Bones here and obviously felt right at home from the word go. OH was working from home for the first few months, and we gradually got her used to being in her crate for a couple of hours while we were both out. But even so, when she was old enough to be left in the house alone out of her crate, she had quite a destructive phase. You may remember this photo:



It wasn't that she was being naughty, or even bored; in retrospect I think she was showing signs of anxiety at being left. Even now, if I am gone for more than about four hours at a time, there is a little patch of doormat that she nibbles... :

So in conclusion, it takes time to get a puppy used to being left alone. Doing it 'cold turkey' is not the best option, if at all avoidable. But there are plenty of services available, such as dog walkers, doggy day care, etc, that did not use to exist.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

[quote author=editor link=topic=4970.msg62149#msg62149 date=1395307301]

Is that three hours total? Or three hours in one stretch?
[/quote]

Per day, whether in bits or in one stretch. Some behaviourist suggest less than this while the pup is really young and building up gradually, but still to no more than 4 hours per day in total (not including the 7-8 hours overnight).[quote author=editor link=topic=4970.msg62146#msg62146 date=1395307038]

I am not convinced that this is the case Jules. I would think it very much depends on the substitute care that is arranged. And nowadays there are a great many facilities for doggy daycare that simply did not exist when we were young.
[/quote]

The problem is the cost and not many people are able to afford to pay for daily dog care. This is where things go wrong. For those people who CAN afford to pay someone to look after their dog during the day and are committed owners while they are at home, then things usually work out just fine...but as I said, I would imagine for every one of them, there's at least 50 who don't have anything arranged for their dog while they are out of the house for hours. Perhaps I didn't put that across before.

I have no problem with committed dog owners who put the care of their animal first, regardless of whether they work full time or not; I know plenty of them and their animals are happy and healthy. But getting a pup when you can't afford to care for it properly, is just wrong.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=4970.msg62152#msg62152 date=1395307641]
I feel strongly that “everyone works full time, so you can’t possibly have a dog” is really the wrong way to think.
[/quote]

I totally agree and I've never said anyone who works shouldn't have a dog. I know lots of people who work full time and have dogs, and their dogs are happy, healthy and live a great life. But the dogs welfare MUST come first. It would be silly to say anyone can have a dog and anyone can organise day care for it, because everyone is an individual. I would not have been able to afford dog care when I worked full time and I had no one I could trust to look after the dog every day, so I didn't have one....Simples!

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

Since you are asking for practical advice Pippa, my very best three 'doggy helper' options are:

1. Friend who has a dog living down the road. Our dogs get on well; she works; we help each other out and share the walking.

2. My cleaning lady will drop by and take Poppy out for a walk whenever I need her to - for a small fee

3. The family opposite have a bouncy, friendly black Labrador. They will collect Poppy and take her over to their garden for a 30 minute romp with their dog. In exchange, I quite often take their dog with me, when I am walking Poppy.

All three options work very well, and are either free, or inexpensive.

Also, when my children were at school, they both had after-school jobs, walking dogs for neighbours who worked.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

[quote author=Jules link=topic=4970.msg62156#msg62156 date=1395308493]
I would not have been able to afford dog care when I worked full time and I had no one I could trust to look after the dog every day, so I didn't have one....Simples!
[/quote]

I hope we hear from people on a budget who have found a way to manage - if I get chance later, I'll set out the costs of what I paid.

My budget wasn't particularly limited. By that I don't mean I could just throw money at any problem, far from it! But I didn't have to search around a lot to find affordable solutions.

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

That would be really helpful Julie

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

We`re on a budget and retired , so as its me who does the walking and I am fit and active, its not a problem . However , we do know a lot of people in and around our village who have dogs and have made a sort of pact, for want of a better word . We all have one anothers telephone numbers so that, should a situation arise where a single person is unwell, someone else can walk their dog for them . The only " rule " that we have is that the dog being walked will not be allowed off lead if it doesnt know the walker really well but at least they get a walk . We have two good friends , older gentlemen who are worried about the future of their dogs should they have to be admitted to hospital , once again , the pact comes into play .
With regards to having a puppy and leaving it for long periods alone , this is something that has never affected us as our work has always been at home , so I struggle to see how anyone can manage, unless they have contingency plans in place like dog day care or puppy walkers , even someone just popping in for the odd 20 mins to let puppy out and have a play . I know that it can be done and can work very well indeed, but it does need planning before puppy arrives .

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

[quote author=editor link=topic=4970.msg62126#msg62126 date=1395303949]
When someone says that they leave a young puppy alone at home whilst they work all day, it often arouses strong feelings.[/quote]

I often wonder if it would arouse the same strong feelings if the person said they worked nightshift from 10.00pm to 6.00am and would be home all day ???

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

I think this is something we are all agreed on

 

Re: Labrador Puppies Home Alone - your thoughts

One thing I think needs emphasising, to those planning a puppy, is that crates are not suitable as 'long-stay parking' for a puppy! And that is something else I think we agree on.

If you are planning to go back to work whilst your puppy is tiny, a crate is not the answer. At least, not initially. You need some kind of large pen, or puppy proof room, with toilet area in it. Or, alternatively, a properly equipped outdoor kennel with a secure exercise yard.