Harley is now 15 months old and a puller I have tried lots of different techniques over the past year, and none have been very successful. She will walk around the block (20 mins) without pulling, but always walking infront of me. Treats don't do it for her no matter how tasty. The problem is partly that I like to go to different places to walk her and to have off lead time, so don't revisit the same location for several days, sometimes weeks, so find it hard to control her enthusiasm. Anyway, my dog walker asked if I would allow her to try a head collar that she uses - I agreed. Feedback from my dog walker has been really positive using this so I decided to buy one (K9 bridle). I have spent the past few days walking in the garden and up and down our street with it - no problems at all We have just gone to PAH.....very exciting place! Got out of the car, head collar on, no probs walked to the shop with my new cue word 'close' (used heel, with me and here before with no success) - no problems. Walked around the shop - again no prob......said hi to a few dogs and children then the staff, again no problem and no jumping walked back to the car via all the shops (with goodies of course) no problem. She walked next to my knee the whole time I am so happy atm I know it's not good to rely on 'tools', but wow, what a difference. I hope this is the start to teaching her how to walk nicely Sorry for the ramble
Re: Lead walking I've ordered a new head collar which is basically the same design as the k9 so thank you for posting how good your finding it. I originally ordered a medium but unfortunately it was too small so I'm waiting for replacements. I only found the k9 after I'd ordered but it is the same. I liked the look of it because of it being similar to a martingale collar it can only tighten so far and because the dogs can walk on any side. With the traditional figure 8 headcollar the dog has to walk on the side you fit the headcollar. My dogs both walk on the left but scout does sometimes like to walk on the right. I also have a neck problem and get pain on the right down my shoulder so it would be easier if I can put scout on the right sometimes then my shoulder isn't curling around if that makes sense. :-\ Looking forward to trying mine now. ;D
Re: Lead walking That's the reasons I like it (only tightens so far, can use it on right or left because of my neck too), also I like it because it doesn't pull the dogs head to the side or up, it controls from the scruff on the neck and lowers the head slightly up she pulls Good luck with yours
Re: Lead walking I know you have worked so hard on lead walking, and in the ideal world it would be great if our labs walked nicely consistently on the lead, but such is life! We use a harness with Casper, he is improving, but I wouldn't risk trying to walk both dogs together on lead on a road, unless I wanted to look deliberately like a spinning top! ;D The main thing is that you are enjoying lovely walks with Harley, and neither of you are feeling uncomfortable
Re: Lead walking Thanks Kate it really has been a struggle but we are definitely turning a corner went on a walk today to the woods/fields half hour away. Got out of the car, went to pul, heard harness tightened slight, I said 'close' and she stayed like that til about 50yards into the woods when I let her off feeling so much more positive about taking her out
Re: Lead walking Hi Naya I'd like to see that harness when we meet up for Severnside Walkies! Pongo isn't a bad puller except when there are other dogs about - but then he is an absolute steam train. I've been wondering if a harness rather than just a collar would help... just for when we're going places that I know there's a risk of him going nuts... Rosie
Re: Lead walking No probs......will bring it with me and will try and get some photos of it on Harley from different angles
Re: Lead walking I received my replacement combi headcollar/swag headcollar, depending on where you but it, on Wednesday. www.allsorts4dogs.co.uk www.southwestagilitygoods.co.uk It is very similar to the K9 bridle. Unfortunately you can't alter the size of the figure of eight which I think you can on the K9, which was why i ordered the wrong size I'm not good at measuring :, but you can alter the size of the half slip. On the plus it is backed with fleece so very soft. The dogs walk really nicely with it and haven't bothered with it at all. I find it comfortable and easy to use and much more like walking using a collar. I was wondering Naya if your reading this if I could ask you a couple of questions. My only concern with it is it might damage their hair where the webbing slips through the ring. This happened with the gencon and they made me one with larger rings. I wondered have you noticed any damage to Harley's hair behind the ears. I'm hoping it won't happen with this type of head collar as the rings move position which is my other question. Do you find the headcollar moves around slightly depending on which side walking ? For example I start with the slip rings either side on the back of the neck and end up with the left hand ring higher up the neck the right one lower. I just want to check incase I'm doing something wrong. : I would definitely recommend this type of head collar. Unlike the under the chin head collars and the traditional figure of eight head collars any pressure is spread out because of the slip being through two rings and I feel there is less chance the dog could jerk its head to the side again because it has two rings. For example if the dog lunges its head won't be jerked sideways.
Re: Lead walking Hi Jen, there hasn't been damage to the hair behind Harley's ears - I think it's because the rings move. As for the rings moving when walking - it did at first, but my dog walker showed me that it was because it was my hand moving it as she walked......I had it too loose which didn't help. I too would recommend this type of head collar, it has been life changing for me as Harley now walks brilliantly without pulling me and also, it doesn't hurt Harley as it doesn't yank her head around
Re: Lead walking Thank you Naya. I think I know what you mean about having it too loose. It also makes it a lot easier to move them away from those irresistible smells they find in the verge. Getting two 28kg dogs to move when they are busy sniffing a blade of grass isn't easy. ;D
Re: Lead walking At my last clicker course, I was complaining that when Charlie went to the end of his lead to look at something (either another dog or a retrieve and so on) or sniff something, I could do nothing but wait (hauling a dog round with force using any means is inappropriate, of course). The trainer rolled her eyes (she does that a lot with me ;D ;D ;D ) and the whole class spent the next hour clicker training responding to the lightest touch on the lead. I wasn't very popular, because we did that instead of more exciting stuff with pheasants. ;D ;D ;D The idea is that instead of your dog feeling the tug and digging his heels in to resist (a natural reaction from a dog) you reverse this so the touch on the lead becomes a cue to turn in the direction of the lead. Dur.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ I felt a bit silly I hadn't trained it as a structured exercise before. It does work though! Moving on to distractions next.... Oh, and it also works to get your dog to walk backwards.
Re: Lead walking Well, in fairness, it'll work just as well as any other cue after it's been proofed. Although once you have your dog's attention anyway, it shouldn't be necessary. It's supposed to be a temporary thing to get you over the period where you need assistance to get your dog to pay attention to you (ie you should have your dog's attention off lead with pheasants around - well, an ambition anyway, perhaps!).
Re: Lead walking My cue for moving on is counting to three. They then either wee or move away. Unfortunately though we will sometimes come across a scent that is just too good. The trouble is how do you proof against scent. There are thousands of different smells. A bitch being the strongest attracting scent. My 'look at me' cue is very strong even from a bitch in season actually in front of us but that scent on the ground is irresistible. They will even look at me with their noses stuck to the ground. ;D
Re: Lead walking Do you think you have to proof against each and every scent? Surely not, that would take an infinite amount of time. They must generalise at some point. Hope so, anyway. Bitches in season are not such a massive deal for us, it's not the most difficult thing for us by any means and no where near impossible - it's possible that we have been able to proof against that somewhat as the density of dogs here means bitches in season are walked on lead often and it's not an unusual thing for us to come across. Food is much more difficult for us, and that's straightforward to proof. Famous last words!
Re: Lead walking [quote author=Naya link=topic=8654.msg122214#msg122214 date=1415379613] I have tried lots of different techniques over the past year, and none have been very successful. [/quote] I was in exactly the same position back in the summer. So many times I nearly gave up and bought a halti or similar, but personally I felt that was defeatist and simply meant I'd failed. So I hired a behavioural trainer for some 1-2-1 sessions and she showed me the error of my ways and taught me some very useful techniques. I now have a dog who can walk beautifully on the lead 95% of the time, unless we pass real close by another dog, or someone she knows, but we're still working on those [quote author=Naya link=topic=8654.msg122214#msg122214 date=1415379613] the whole time I am so happy atm I know it's not good to rely on 'tools', but wow, what a difference. I hope this is the start to teaching her how to walk nicely [/quote] I personally worried a lot that going down the tools route meant we would be reliant on that tool forever more. I've heard a few folk say that their dog walks beautifully in the harness but as soon as they try going back to a standard collar and lead, the old ways come back very quickly. I guess that's because the sensations that occur when pulling on a collar vs harness are very different. I'd love to expand my understanding on this if anyone has experienced otherwise.
Re: Lead walking Your points a very valid and true John. Im not an expert but I would've thought your probably right about the different sensations a dog feels between a harness, collar or head collar. I personally think you need to train a dog to walk correctly on all these 'tools'. However it might be that when a dog has learnt to walk to heel on a harness or head collar it will then be quicker to teach it to walk to heel on a collar. I hope Naya won't mind me saying this but she has problems with her back so she needs a 'tool' that will enable her to walk Harley without any pulling. It could be perhaps described as more of a 'tool' for Naya rather than Harley. I use head collars because I have two very reactive dogs. My dogs walk to heel very well on a collar. I still use head collars though when we walk where we might meet people just incase. The head collar gives me more control of their head and if they react I have control. In my case I need to work on their reactivity issues rather than their lead walking.
