Re: LEGGED IT Helen, you really must get the idea out of your head that you have failed Charlie, you haven't one tiny bit. You have put all your energy, thoughts, time in attempting to train him, not your fault that he is the type of dog who cannot be trained to ignore birds. I let my GSPs chase the swallows until they were exhausted as I knew they wouldn't catch one and they then learned the futility of chasing birds and stopped doing it. It is safe to let dogs chase swallows as they fly low and in circles, don't disappear off into the horizon, well in my experience, as they are feeding as they are flying very low, about 8" off the ground. You could try Charlie with that? Charlie likes birds, have you thought of buying a dummy with a pheasant pelt on it (Sporting Saint do a dummy or just a pheasant pelt), that may keep him focused on you and you could hide it for him to find? I would hate Charlie to be euthanized, but feel for your sake and his, it may be better to re-home him. There may be a place where he can run with no game birds about and if you give his history, only the person who really understands what kind of dog he is, will attempt to take him on. But please, you have not failed Charlie, I don't know anyone who would have tried so hard for so long. You should be commended for your commitment. Stacia
Re: LEGGED IT http://www.flickr.com/photos/31088481@N03/10020915484/ Here's the pic I tried to add to the previous post.....
Re: LEGGED IT Stacia, WE WOULD NEVER HAVE CHARLIE EUTHANIZED. :'( We are having a big think about how else we can help Charlie and have not come to any decisions yet. Thank you for your advice it gives me something else to consider also. I appreciate it. Helen x
Re: LEGGED IT I've been out all day and just come on now.....Julie what a lovely idea and what a trend to start,it's made me smile from ear to ear to see all your lovely pictures,hope it's given you the lift you truly deserve Helen,big hug xxx
Re: LEGGED IT Hi Helen I don't know if I'm going to be of any help and I don't want to say the wrong thing but until reading this I hadn't realised you had such a problem with Charlie so the other things you talk about make Charlie sound a good dog which apart from legging off he is. Scout does the same. I call it the smell of the wild he just goes and my old lab in his young days would race across fields if he saw somebody took no notice of me. All I would say is you love Charlie that's what's important. Ok he'd like a big run but it won't do him any harm if he doesn't get to race the fields and you want to be able to give him that but perhaps you have to be realistic (I know you are) about his capability at the moment. He will calm as he gets older hard to believe at times I know the feeling. If you re homed Charlie in a place you were happy with they'd have the same problems. There are no open spaces without distractions, animals, birds etc . I get very frustrated and I get told but look what they can do they can be so good and I bet Charlie can be too. Deep breath, drop shoulders and keep smiling Jen
Re: LEGGED IT Hi Helen I think I've sent a long PM in response to your PM re Charlie but I've not used the messaging on the site before. Could you let me know if it has arrived please? Technological numpty here.......
Re: LEGGED IT Hi Lochan, yes received both of them. Thank you so much. Techno numpty here too : Helen x
Re: LEGGED IT PS. Helen Have you thought about looking around your local area for a fenced field to rent for a couple of hours a day. It might sound daft but my auntie does it for her 2 lurchers. Boy can they run! can't even blink they've gone. Even if it was a paddock being rested for winter. It might be worth asking. Then Charlie could have a good run and once out of his system you could train recall without panic. It's just an idea might be a stupid one. ??? Jen
Re: LEGGED IT hi helen just catching up on the forum...so sorry to hear about Charlie legging it off, and i know how hard it is managing a hard hunting dog. its also really hard to remember how much progress we make sometimes, i know he is still legging it but he knows where you are and he is coming back. he nearly came back quickly if it hadnt been for that bloomin bird! anyway, keep the faith, charlie is a good boy and you have done wonders and you love him to bits. if its the slightest comfort brodick went awol out of the park after a cat last week, he is back on his long line there until he forgets about it it and we were way down the Total Recall journey. i see that Charlie is on a ten metre line. i had brodick on a two hundred foot line for a good while. he trailed it behind him and got really good exercise but i put knots in it so if he started to leg it i could stamp on it. cuillin quickly got used to keeping out of the way as did i and remarkably quickly it became easy to manage on walks although i had to walk right up the hills and at very quiet times it meant he could run after balls and generally run about and as pippa explains i gradually chopped bits off. im wee too but stamping on the line brought him to a swift stop without me being yanked over! i know its not how you want to walk your dogs but it does allow them to run and you to control. anyway, hope you are ok and big full bum and tail wags from cuillin and a lick from fellow hard hunter brodick...
Re: LEGGED IT Hi helen i have resisted posting on this thread for a while but i feel that i have to. barley is quite similar but then quite different from charlie. barley has no recall, he has not got the umph for anything, he is a very difficult dog to understand, train and control. He is a rescue from a puppy farm, he came to us when he was about 9 months old, the first week in our house he would not come near us, which was horrible for everyone, we were thinking what have we done, and bearing in mind that he was our first dog, he was a very difficult one, it took 2 months after him getting all of his jabs just to get him out of the front door, another month just to get him onto the road then another couple of weeks to be able to actually take him for a walk with out him sitting down and refusing to move anywhere except home as he was scared, everything scared him, he had to learn how to live like a real dog. About 1 month after he was going for proper walks he got badly bitten on his front leg by a dalmation, this took him almost back to square one as it knocked his confidence out of him, so we had to go through the same process over again. Then we had to deal with his aggression towards other dogs as he perceived them as threats, this took about 2 months to get to a reasonable stage where he could meet and great certain dogs only, but at least he got some interaction with dogs, it has taken him until a few months ago where i finally cracked his aggression towards some dogs, which was a tremendous achievement for him. During all this we still had to concur his fears, his food aggression, his health issues and confidence issues towards new situations. Some of this stuff is ongoing work and will keep going on for a while as they are very deep seated problems. Now for the recall, the first time we let him off in a secure fully fenced paddock, it took us 4 hours to get him back as he turned into a nervous wreck and did not know what to do except run and avoid anyone getting near him at all costs, that set the scene for his 'recall' basically, when we let him off after that he would do the same but we would be prepared and he would have a training line trailing behind him so we only had to get within 10 meter of him to catch him, only on very rare occasions is he let off and even then it is only in a secure area that he cannot escape out off, so he has been confined to a training line attached to us or a normal lead for most of his life with us as we cannot trust him to be off lead, as the times that me and dad have taken the leap and actually let him off lead at our local park that does have gates, he has opened the gate and run out onto the road, which luckily is not a busy one, but he has run out in front of cars and he has had a couple of near misses that he is very lucky, as one of then near misses was with a bus, then i often will run after him and also have to dodge cars which is quite scary for me, but i really do not want to loose him, he is too special to me, i have some very personal connections with him which make him a very special boy. One time he ran out of the park was after a dog, that attacked him once he got to it, and the owners words were, keep him on a lead, even though it was his dog which was off lead that attacked him. i understand that charlie is a very special boy, but you are not alone with a special dog, who has taken loads of time and effort to make at least partly sane and normal, when there can be some little things that can set training back to square one even though the little things are considered normal, like a dog running up behind barley and spooking him, will then growl at dogs that run up behind him as it has scared him, some dog owners just do not have the decency to keep there dogs under control or obey the pleas of an owner who is trying to control and train there own dog even though said dog is wearing a give me space bandana and cover for his lead, which are clearly visible from a distance which is very fustrating. We have yet to try the total recall program with barley, but he is definitely going to be a struggle as he has no enthusiams for anything, even stuff like chicken, bacon, beef and even meaty bones will not get him motivated enough, at dog training he is the slowest dog there eventhough there is a 15 year old springer spaniel that comes and has arthritis and even a few months ago suffered a stroke , is faster than him, he just can not be bothered and nothing can get him motivated, which makes it very difficult for me as the handler to make him want to work and at times it can be very frustrating for me and i wonder why we ever got him in the first place as i recon for even an experienced dog owner would have struggled with him. within the first year of having him we did even think about re-homing him but we did not , we persevered and he is starting to turn into an almost normal like dog but he is never going to be the dog i would like him to be, he is never going be a normal dog, he is never going to obedient to every command and everything thing i tell him to do, i am lucky that he listens to some of the things i tell him to do, he has come a long way from when we got him to now, and i have as well, as a handler the trainer at training said that i am more advanced than some of the owners who have been coming for years and have had several dogs, and i am very good at reading my own and others dogs and i am very good at dealing with his issues without fuss or the need for intervention from other people, the head trainer has even suggested for me to take a dog training instructor course and become an instructor at the club, which i am very pleased about. Back to charlie, keep training him, keep up with the good work, yes you will have bad days and good days but it is worth it in the end, for you and charlie, you have done an amazing job with him so far so keep up with it, you will succeed with his recall training, it just takes lots of time and effort but also support from others and the motivation to succeed, is very important.
Re: LEGGED IT My goodness, Annabelle!! You and Helen certainly could have some tales to tell each another!! I have a small sense of what you both have gone through - it really is quite different with Simba than it was for the two dogs we raised from pups. It has taken him awhile for him to trust us and to settle into his new home, and the retraining to overcome the "bad" behaviours is certainly challenging. And Simba hasn't had nearly the difficulties you two have gone through.....although certainly the recall isn't there in his case either. Hats off to you both for the efforts you have made and are continuing to make for your dogs.....they truly don't know how lucky they are to have you!!
Re: LEGGED IT Hi Jen, I could still have use of the paddock we were using as my neighbour has still not sold her property, so maybe it's back to square 1. Thank you for your suggestion, we had stopped using it during the summer because it was so hot, but needs must I guess. Hi Debsie, thanks for your kind words, I worry about Charlie on any length of line as he will reach the end in a split second as he is not content with being on it chasing a ball - if only :. Does Brodick reach the end at any speed? Wow I bet that was frightening when he shot after poor kitty Hi Annabelle, thank you for your posting too. You really have had a lot to deal with too with Barley and I admire you for that . I suppose when I look at it Charlie's only minus point is his recall, but it's the most important thing. It's so very difficult to keep going when you don't seem get any pay back for all the work, it's a bit like going to work and not being paid. Every 6 months or so I lose the motivation to keep going and people in our village don't help with their negative comments, to the point I dread meeting them Hi Lisa, you are going great guns with Simba considering you have only had him such a short time. Thank you also for your lovely words. Helen xx
Re: LEGGED IT Helen, thats dreadful that local people make negative comments, shocking Rescue dogs can be very hard work indeed, they have no right to make you feel even worse than you do already, they are not worthy of your distress, ignore them , head high for what you HAVE achieved , blasted people
Re: LEGGED IT Ignore the haters Helen, they're not worth your time! I'm not making light of the challenges you face but your neighbours should consider that Charlie could be a LOT more antisocial! He's not aggressive, noisy and he doesn't leave mess all over the place. Their lives could be worse! Horrible people
Re: LEGGED IT Can't believe that people give you a hard time. They really have no idea..... They could never have done what you have done.
Re: LEGGED IT Honestly!!!! The nerve!!!! Helen, don't listen to THEM!!! You are awesome, inspiring, and courageous!!
