Hi all, Firstly thank you for all the help you have already given me as a new lab puppy owner, this forum is great. I'd just like to ask everyone what they believe the likelihood of a well bred lab puppy developing a cruciate ligament related injury. Has anyone known any labs to suffer from this and any circumstantial details would be great such as age of puppy and operation costs if possible. He will be kept at optimal weight and exercised appropriately, I should also mention my garden where he plays is hilly so maybe that could be more likely to produce injury? I ask because I have found a good value 'for life' insurance policy with pet protect but the only catch is that they only provide up to £750 for cruciate ligament related vet bills which makes me uneasy. Essentially the policy is equal to petplan or KC in my eyes excluding this issue stated. Any opinions much appreciated. The price difference is substantial, pet protect £200, Animal Friends £330, KC £400, Petplan £560, all for similar levels of life cover. Not sure if I can afford petplan or even afford not to!
@JulieT has a dog who had two cruciate repairs, one of which was before he was a year old, I believe. He has great breeding. Cruciate disease doesn't have a genetic test yet, and it's certainly more complicated than just being about good breeding. If you knew Julie, you'd know that her dog was always very fit and healthy, and given absolutely age-appropriate exercise. She doesn't come on the forum much at the moment, but you can search her historical posts. The cost was substantial. How common it is, I couldn't tell you. If you can afford the extra cover, then I would take it, just for peace of mind.
My dog had both his cruciates done (TPLO surgery) and 10 years ago it was US$5K per knee (no insurance). His doc warned me that once one goes, the other one usually does as well. This was true for two of my dogs - both tore both knees, though not at the same time. I think my dog's issues may have been related to early neuter, but there's no way to be sure. What the ortho vet told me when I asked "why?" was essentially "S*&#t happens". A lot has to do with the size of the dog and the breed. My dog was a rescue Rottie, but the ortho vet literally made a mint off of doing TPLOs for the local police dogs (mainly GSDs and Malinois) - who were wonderfully bred dogs and trained with injury prevention in mind, but are both breeds with a tendency towards this injury.
As @Emily_BabbelHund mentioned, the likelihood if one cruciate ligament ruptures, the other will go to in a relatively short space of time. If you have a "for life" cover, that shouldn't be a problem. Just check the medical limits for your policy, as cruciate repairs are expensive, running at approx. £1,800 (ref: Oaktree centre, Edinburgh), although there does seem quite a variance which is probably due to which type of repair the practice recommends. It is very good though, that you are researching insurance policies so carefully at this stage.
Welcome from me Helen, Hattie 9 years and our rescue dog Charlie 6 years. The breed of dog has nothing to do with the likelyhood of cruciate ligament ruptures, it can happen any dog. I am with Petplan and my dogs are insured upto £7,000 each with 'life time' cover for any condition and I pay £630 per year for both dogs. I recently had to claim for Charlie as he had a freak accident and almost killed himself I claimed almost £2,000 for his treatment and ongoing treatment 6 weeks after. I have never had to claim for Hattie and she is 9 years old, it's just how it goes. Very glad we kept the insurance as we had discussed not renewing it. I think you never know what's going to happen, when or if. I know Petplan do monthly payments if that helps. Good luck. xx
If a cruciate ligament tears in a young Labrador it's likely that there was something wrong with the joint to start with (eg an inherited condition). A rupture due to normal activity is extremely unlikely. Having a hilly yard is extremely unlikely to cause a problem. That said, the decision to take out coverage for this or not is always a gamble - are you happy to take a very small risk with a big financial consequence or not? I have a low tolerance for risk so I personally would pay for the more extensive coverage.
There are other things which dogs can get which are expensive to treat. My 6 years old developed a type of lupus. i was glad i had a expensive for life policy. His care was expensive and the policy paid most of it and despite being really ill it helped him live a almost normal happy life.he lived until he was over 14.all my dogs are insured with for life policies they cost a lot but I have found them invaluable.
The breed of dog is very relevant to the risk of cruciate damage. Unfortunately, Labradors are much more predisposed than other breeds, and as far as I can tell, it's on the increase - which is not at all surprising, given that there are not yet tests to rule the genetic cause out of the gene pool. I would think that unless we get a genetic test soon, CCL rupture will be the new ED.... Anyway, having had a dog with two CCL ruptures, and seen the eye watering bills that my insurance company paid - it came to about £20k in total - I personally would go with a company that insures against CCL damage. But, it depends on your appetite for risk.
Thank you for your replies guys, I'll keep all this mind while I decide. Definitely getting some 'life' cover insurance, just have to decide on who now.
I've been reading up on cruciate ligament damage as I am working with several people whose dogs are recovering following surgery. and thought this sratement might beof interest. "The possibility of a genetic link is unknown. An understanding of the role genetics might play may be important in increasing the likelihood of actively restraining stifle deficiencies and/or structural (conformation) abnormalities. What is currently known is that all breeds are susceptible. Specifically, the incidence of cranial cruciate ligament disease increases for rottweilers and Labrador retrievers younger than four years of age, dogs older than five years of age, and in large-breed dogs from one to two years of age. The predominant gender this affects is the spayed female." The cruciate problem is not restricted to Labradors it happens in all breeds and I know of numerous small breeds affected i.e Chihuahuas, French Bulldogs, Spaniels, Shih Tsus ......
Where I live a Spaniel had 2 cruciates, a large male Boxer and my friends rescue JR cross, but no Labradors, well none that I know of and there's a heck of a lot of them round here
Our collie cross had a cruciate ligament op several years ago, having jarred her leg in a hole she or the foxes had previously dug in the (flat) lawn. She wasn't insured, so we paid not only for the operation but for the hydrotherapy sessions to strengthen her leg afterwards too. It was all worth it because it gave her good quality of life afterwards. Having never had insurance for our dogs before, mine have now been insured since puppyhood. It seems a bit like tempting fate to discontinue it, although the premiums rise each year... My two are insured through Vetsure - you don't mention that company, so it might be worth investigating. They have various levels of cover, as the others probably do too, so it might be worth a look.
When Nell had her pre spay check , and the Vet examined her legs as I had some mild concern , she told me that Chihuahua and Chihuahua X `s were very susceptible to cruciate problems , plus elbows . Being Chi X Shihtuzu ( we think ! ) , I had been worried but thankfully there were no grounds to be , for us anyway .
Just to add , @Doggo44 My Labrador Sam was diagnosed with a rare type of Lymphoma last summer , Epitheliotropic T Cell . He required surgery , followed by very complex and expensive testing on his tissue , plus countless visits to the Vets plus medication . I dread to think what this would have cost , we would have found the money somehow , but decent insurance made the bitter pill easier to swallow .
Hi there and welcome. I think you are right to be concerned. Cruciate ligament repairs will cost a great deal more than this. I would be wary of any pet insurance policy which puts such low ceilings on payments for specific problems After all, that's why we buy insurance (and it isn't cheap) to pay for those more expensive eventualities Interestingly, cruciate ligament problems (or at least their prevalence) are breed related. You can find a study here. http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/10496133. And here. http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/8226247 Labs are one of the breeds most likely to be affected. Of course, that doesn’t mean other breeds don’t get ccl problems, they can occur in many breeds. It's just that Labs are more at risk than most. As a general rule, if an insurance company excludes a condition or places provisos on payment for a particular breed, it is because this condition is more likely for that breed. Their policies are based on the results of previous payments. You’ll also find an interesting article on the main site about cruciate problems with illustrations and information about how Julie’s dog was affected here. Studies have also shown that the risks increase with neutering, but again, this doesn't explain all cases, Julie's dog for example is not neutered. Cruciate problems are particularly nasty because the repair costs are high and recovery times are long.
Pet insurance goes up year on year, it's the reason we can't afford a second dog of our own. This year Tatze's insurance (lifetime cover, John Lewis) bumped up by £200 a year. So I got a quote from PetPlan then phoned John Lewis. They were good and explained exactly why new customers got a much better deal for the same age/breed/health of dog. She looked into it and was able to knock it down considerably by increasing the excess to £180. It's always worth a phone call. I would always fully insure every dog with lifetime cover and no conditions excepted. If that seems expensive then paying for an operation and ongoing care would be entirely out of reach, I think. .
That's the thing. Our pet insurance is now £25 a month which is easily affordable for us - obviously it will go up throughout Stanleys lifetime. It's a lifetime policy and it covers everything. But should he need a major operation we wouldn't have the money to pay for it and would likely have to get a loan or something. So we'd have to pay big repayments on that anyway. So I'd rather just pay in advance and have the peace of mind that he's covered than have the worry of dealing with it later.
As per my reading and experience too fast growth and too prolonged growth may be contributing factors. Long bones too long for tendons and ligaments to support properly can lead to injury. Supposed because research shows it does happen more often in dogs neutered before puberty. And most puppy food these days no longer has "added calcium for fast growing puppy." As did the food a fellow in our first puppy obedience class way back in 1994 was feeding his 5 months old puppy. Pup did injure his back legs (honestly, not sure exactly which of several possible injuries it was) and could not continue the class, had to rest, and first thing his Vet did was change the food. He was a HUGE puppy, a Lab. So you can mitigate the possibility of injury by what you feed and when you neuter
I think another consideration is that many insurers will increase premiums in certain situations . We hadn't claimed on Sams policy , until he became poorly , the company ( Tesco ) did pay up , but once they saw the word Carcinoma , the premium practically doubled . I was tempted to cancel and not bother with insurance, given the circumstances , but decided against doing that, as it would be sods law that he would need Veterinary care within days !
Our situation in Germany is different - full medical coverage is horrendously expensive, I couldn't afford that for both dogs. Up until now I had never insured a dog, but I have insured Merlin for accidents and operations, and will do the same for Poppy, with an excess of €150. I also have them both on third-party insurance, as house insurance does not cover pets here. I must say I feel better having done that
