I realised having watched the BBC programmes about the six puppies, that we had never properly taught the 'look at me' command. In the house it has never seemed to be much of a problem, but he certainly doesn't 'look' if there's something more interesting on a walk. So armed with roast chicken in my clenched fists and a clicker, I sat on my knees expecting to be able to reward him almost immediately with the chicken when he looked at me. No. He pawed and nibbled and licked and nudged my hands for ages before I got anything that was even close to a 'look'. My trousers are wet from the amount of slobber on them. We carried on for ten minutes, with me clicking and treating at the slightest glance towards me and I think we ultimately made small steps in him picking this up more quickly. However he seems quite reluctant to look at me, even though he can stare at me dolefully from the inside of his cage with those oh so cute brown eyes! I wonder whether the value of the treat was too high initially and he was completely focused on that? On reflection I can't believe I overlooked this command and got him to spin in circles and walk backwards before I got him to simply look at my face! Anyone else overlooked the oh so obvious! in training? (and on the flip side I would never have taught to shake paws / high five if I knew he would do it fifty times a day on bare skin whenever he wanted something)
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Ha ha ;D I'm sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, but that is so funny, really. We don't have a look at me command either so I am not sitting here smugly. It I want Lilly to look at me I have previously just brought a treat up to my face - I guess this would encourage the eye contact and you could then C&T ??
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... The way to do it is as drj@5 does, have the treat at your face level. The food in clenched fist is more used for the 'leave it', the moment the dog's nose comes off your fist, you click and reward.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Yes, my clenched fists slowly went up from my lap to my tummy, chest, then neck so he had to look at me! I was even ducking my head down a bit to catch his eye! (sounds so desperate!) I then slowly managed to have them a bit lower and he responded a bit more after many clicks. I think I was most surprised that it never even occurred to him to look at me for a full minute at a time, only the spot where he knew the chicken was. Hurt, offended, disappointed - yes I felt all of those tonight. Cupboard love reigns here! We shall try again tomorrow. I love him even if he doesn't like looking at me.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... You could also use some of his daily food ration to hand feed him for looking at you, so looking at you before he goes through doors, sitting looking at you to have his collar/lead put on, looking at you before you put his final meal on the floor, looking at you before he gets into the car. You could click & treat for all of these and loads more daily things x
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Hi Helen, Yes, now I've suddenly become aware it I think I will start doing C&T for the 'look' whenever I can, and I hope that I realise he actually looks at me more than i had ever noticed before! Just feel a bit stupid for not thinking of it before until I watched someone doing it on tv! :-[
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... I trained watch me, then decided never to use it. After thinking about it, it's not a cue I want to use. I want his attention by default, not on cue (and there are more effective attention getting cues anyway). And I don't want to distract him from his environment, I want him to cope with it. I also found "watch me" became a sort of staring match that made me feel uncomfortable, let alone the dog! I don't think it's an obvious thing to teach at all, I won't bother with my next pup.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... I taught my lab with the lure approach described earlier, my spaniel I'm using a clicker to capture the behaviour when voluntarily offered. Both methods seem to be working ok
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Natalie, no need to feel silly there is soooo much training to remember and do, we are only human x
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... I just use the words "at me" and place a finger by my left eye. I tried the clicker, but abandoned it. I always train a hand signal to go with a command which makes it very much more difficult to co-ordinate clicker, hand signal and reward. I think it is quite a difficult one to nail, you are never quite sure if they were going to look at you anyway and how long is it reasonable to maintain eye contact with your dog.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Try not having the food in your hand at all, and just mark (click) and reward anytime he looks at you spontaneously. You can add a cue if you want, or just use it as a way of increasing the chances that he will attend to you by default (the approach Julie describes).
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... [quote author=leejane link=topic=9509.msg137121#msg137121 date=1421268101] ... Anyone else overlooked the oh so obvious! in training? ...[/quote] Yes. For some reason we I completely overlooked Stand. We happily went between Sit and Down without giving a thought to Stand! It's proving a little tricky to teach now to a boisterous teenager : Oh well, baby steps ... Like Rachael suggests, for 'Look at me' I'd try with no food at all, click for the action that you want, and then take out and give the reward.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... A Gundog trainer I had to my two told me to always hold the treat just under my chin. They will then automatically follow the treat up and look at you. It works. Now I don't need a treat if I want their attention, for example if they are getting distracted by something I put my closed hand under my chin and they automatically look at me. No verbal cue but I also have it trained for verbal cue. I agree with Julie and Rachael to a point. It is better if the dog looks at you by default without needing a cue. However my dogs are very reactive, although improved, having look at me on cue is important to get my dogs attention so as to be able to break their focus from the trigger if necessary. Unfortunately at times, unlike Charlie, my dogs need distracting from their environment certain things they just can't cope with. :-\. I've found though that by training look at me as a cue it has also become a default behaviour as they've grown in confidence and are able to cope with more. Now when a dog approaches us, for example, they automatically look at me I don't need to cue. I think it depends on the dog as to whether a cue is needed or not.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... If you do use food under your chin to lure the dog's gaze towards your face it is important to mark (click) only when the dog has actually made eye contact and is not just staring at the food under your chin (they are not really learning from that, they are just staring at food). Lure the gaze using the food no more than half a dozen times, then test it by putting the food into your other hand or in your pocket. If they just keep staring at where the food went then they haven't picked up on the fact that what you want is eye contact. Luring is a perfectly fine way to get the first steps towards the behaviour you want though (or to distract your dog in a situation that might otherwise go all wrong!)
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... It never even occurred to me to teach 'look at me', and I can't say I have ever felt we needed it, with any of my dogs. 'Stand', now, I do wish I'd taught!!!
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Stand is something I missed too. As I'm reminded each time I go to the vet and Charlie says hello, then asks for a tummy rub, squirming around on his back polishing the vet's shoes, with the odd nibble at the bottom of his trousers. (Did I mention my dog is nearly two? ;D ) The vet always says "ok....can we have him standing up?". Er.... I have recently shaped it by having Charlie stand with his front feet on a board to the cue Stand. Just got to get rid of the board and proof it...rather not carry a chopping board into the vet's!!!
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9509.msg137222#msg137222 date=1421320513] rather not carry a chopping board into the vet's!!! [/quote] Needs must lol ;D ;D ;D
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... I needed a 'look at me' facing similar issues to Jen ,I needed to get past dogs that Dexter was reacting to without looking like a walking mess,it was stressing me too and making the whole situation worse. I rewarded loads in the house whenever he looked at me,c&t ( clicker on my finger and treats in my pocket all the time) when we were walking i did have to raise food to my eye to get him to look up at first...a few people we met told me I had sardine in my eyebrow ;D ;D ;D We have a really strong look at me now...but like Julie has mentioned it does have it's downside.Dexter can think his task is over at times if I break eye contact with him....but its more important for us that I can get past staring dogs safely than him stay on a down for a long time. X
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... I'm not critical of "look at me" (as in that fixed eye contact) as a coping mechanism if that's helpful, it's just I'm not sure of the point of it otherwise. . It does seem hard to move on from that to other things, so starting out with a puppy, it's not something I'd train again. I reward for the dog choosing to pay attention to me (but not eye contact). In a rare tight spot, I'd just feed as a distraction, otherwise I'd work on him coping with whatever it is he is excited by with breaks of activity if I need to, rather than look at me.
Re: "Look at me!" Ok just ignore me then... Just in terms of uses for 'watch me', I have occasionally used it for direction control, if she's sat and fixating on the dummy I DON'T want her to get first! It gets her attention back so the arm signal works Mostly I use it when she's gone all stary at a mad collie though (it always seems to be collies!) ;D ;D
