Re: Lots of training questions -- long [quote author=Bonnie link=topic=10297.msg154303#msg154303 date=1428153657] [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10297.msg151665#msg151665 date=1427189166] Willow didn't like going out in the rain when we first had her. So I stood out there singing, squeaking and running around like a loon, waving my arms to show her how much fun it was. She generally just sat there, looking at me like I was mental. She had a point. [/quote] ;D ;D ;D [size=6pt] (I can relate to this! )[/size] [/quote] She will play but still will not do her business.
Re: Lots of training questions -- long [quote author=NewLabOwner link=topic=10297.msg154304#msg154304 date=1428153828] I stopped rewarding her for going outside and she seemed to do better. I just praise her and she loves it. So, I stopped those treats. [/quote] mmm......right. Reintroduce the treats for going outside. And make them good. Really, really good - fillet steak wouldn't be overdoing it. And give her nine of them each time she goes outside.
Re: Lots of training questions -- long Have you tried putting a pad outside? I did this with Willow to start off with to encourage her to go there, since she'd been used to going on grass until she came to us, and we needed her to go on our terrace. We never used pads inside. The fact you said she cried to go inside and then immediately went to the toilet on a pad sounds very much like she sees the pads as her toilet space, so trying one outside may work. Also, as Julie says, reintroduce the treats for going outside. You can treat her AND praise her, obviously. You want to make the behaviour you want super rewarding for her. Nine treats will work. One at a time, not all at once. Every single time she goes to the loo outside. I can assure you there is no aggression in the biting. Even if she's growling, it's almost certainly in play and excitement. You should hear my two playing with each other - it sometimes sounds like they're trying to kill each other, but when you watch their body language, you can see it's all in fun. Please don't hold her snout shut - you shouldn't use that amount of physicality with your puppy. Honestly, consistency is the key but it will take some time - quite a few weeks before she gets through the crocopup phase. Also, please read (or re-read if you have already seen it) this article on bite inhibition which explains why you shouldn't stop your puppy biting you completely (you said you don't let her bite even gently). I think you have too many consequences of biting too hard. There should be one - all attention is immediately withdrawn. If she bites at your trousers, ignore her. Do not make eye contact. If she continues, walk away to an area she can't get to, without talking to her or even looking at her. But be aware, it takes absolute consistency and time.
Re: Lots of training questions -- long [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10297.msg154308#msg154308 date=1428154921] I can assure you there is no aggression in the biting. Even if she's growling, it's almost certainly in play and excitement. You should hear my two playing with each other - it sometimes sounds like they're trying to kill each other, but when you watch their body language, you can see it's all in fun. [/quote] When she is playing and gets over-excited, yes, it is not aggressive. When she is chewing on the furniture and I try to re-direct her to a chew toy and she lunges at me, with scowling face and growling/barking, I'm not so sure. I want to believe that it is not aggressive but it really does appear to be. Her tail is not wagging. Her ears are back. Her face is in a scowl. She is not playing. She is warning me that she wants to chew whatever she is chewing and to leave her alone. It very much reminds me of trying to take a food bowl away from a dog you don't know. Lisa
Re: Lots of training questions -- long If it is resource guarding, you can use the tips in this article: How to stop your Labrador growling over food, even with non-food resources. Otherwise, if you really do think it's actual aggression, it's imperative that you get a behaviourist to observe her as soon as possible, to give you a plan of action, especially since you have a child in the house. Another couple of points; you said that she ran around very energetically immediately after eating. It can be very bad for the to let them run so soon after eating, so you need to ensure she doesn't for around half an hour afterwards, even if that means popping her in her crate or keeping her on a lead. Letting her exercise so vigorously increases the chance of bloat, which is a life-threatening emergency. Also, don't worry about her eating what she's thrown up; it may seem disgusting to our sensibilities, but it's perfectly normal for dogs. In fact, some dogs will regurgitate their food in order to chew it more to aid with digestion. Stopping them eating it is depriving them of their meal!
Re: Lots of training questions -- long [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10297.msg154308#msg154308 date=1428154921] Please don't hold her snout shut - you shouldn't use that amount of physicality with your puppy. Honestly, consistency is the key but it will take some time - quite a few weeks before she gets through the crocopup phase. Also, please read (or re-read if you have already seen it) this article on bite inhibition which explains why you shouldn't stop your puppy biting you completely (you said you don't let her bite even gently). I think you have too many consequences of biting too hard. There should be one - all attention is immediately withdrawn. If she bites at your trousers, ignore her. Do not make eye contact. If she continues, walk away to an area she can't get to, without talking to her or even looking at her. But be aware, it takes absolute consistency and time. [/quote] I've read all about bite inhibition. I've done a lot of the suggestions and the only thing that's happened is she became a more aggressive biter. All attention is withdrawn but I have to protect myself up until that point. If we're outside and she's attacking me, there is no way to remove myself. I can hold her snout shut so she isn't successful at mauling me, which is what I do. I hold her snout shut, say "no bite" and put her in her crate for a time out. When I remove her, she's calmed down and usually much more mindful of how hard she bites me. Perhaps when she has learned not to bite so hard, I will allow her to gnaw a bit on my hands but until she can stop attacking me, I can't allow her to bite like that. I don't want to ignore her biting my pants because she puts holes in them. And if I'm wearing shorter pants then she bites my legs. She has toys to chew on. She doesn't need to chew on me. I've read up on aggressive dogs and if you have one that some methods need to be employed.. namely not allowing them to chew on your hands/feet; to redirect them to a toy. Also, not to play tug with them because that can get them over-excited. I'm not entirely convinced that her behavior is normal. As I said, when she doesn't get what she wants (i.e. chewing on furniture legs mostly and I move her away), she immediately snaps at me and continues to go after me in an aggressive way like a dog would do when protecting food from a stranger. This is not behavior that i can allow. As I said, my husband was moving her away from eating vomit this morning and she ferociously snapped at him, caught his hand and bit him until it bled. I think this is on the aggressive-behavior side of things. I've had 2 puppies, both terriers that never did this. My husband has had lots of dogs over the years - sometimes 4 at once. He's had all kinds of mutts, small dogs, big dogs, etc and has never had a puppy bite like this. I'll be bringing her to the vet next week. I decided to bring her to the same vet she's seen already so we'll see what the vet has to say. Other than the biting, I think it's all normal. The jury is still out on the biting thing. We'll see. Lisa
Re: Lots of training questions -- long [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10297.msg154320#msg154320 date=1428157109] If it is resource guarding, you can use the tips in this article: How to stop your Labrador growling over food, even with non-food resources. Otherwise, if you really do think it's actual aggression, it's imperative that you get a behaviourist to observe her as soon as possible, to give you a plan of action, especially since you have a child in the house.[/quote] I don't think it's resource guarding. I'll have to read up a bit more on that. She does it mostly when she wants to do something and we won't allow it. Eat her vomit, chew on the furniture, move her away from something dangerous like like wires and things like that. I'll read that article and see if her behavior fits into that but I think I've read it already early on and dismissed it. I'll so so again. [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10297.msg154320#msg154320 date=1428157109] Another couple of points; you said that she ran around very energetically immediately after eating. It can be very bad for the to let them run so soon after eating, so you need to ensure she doesn't for around half an hour afterwards, even if that means popping her in her crate or keeping her on a lead. Letting her exercise so vigorously increases the chance of bloat, which is a life-threatening emergency. [/quote] She doesn't usually do this but for some reason she decided to run really hard. She tends to poop after she eats especially in the morning so if I don't take her out right after she eats, she will go on the floor or in her crate. [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=10297.msg154320#msg154320 date=1428157109] Also, don't worry about her eating what she's thrown up; it may seem disgusting to our sensibilities, but it's perfectly normal for dogs. In fact, some dogs will regurgitate their food in order to chew it more to aid with digestion. Stopping them eating it is depriving them of their meal! [/quote] Even now that it's been outside all morning. We haven't gotten out there to clean it up yet. Because she threw it all up, my husband fed her again smaller amounts about 10 minutes apart from each other. This brings me to another question... she gobbles down her food very fast. Is there a way to get her to eat more slowly? Does it even matter? Thanks, Lisa
Re: Lots of training questions -- long Some good advice from Snowbunny on the biting and garden issues. I'm nowhere near to being an expert but I suspect some of the reason Ellie is very intent on biting you and the family so much is that she was very young when separated from Mum and her siblings. Much of the bite inhibition comes from the rough and tumble playing with litter mates. Normally if they bite too hard they get nipped back and puppy play involves a lot of noise but they don't normally hurt each other. You are making progress, it's just that sometimes it takes longer to get through one stage than we would like. Ellie is still very young but consistency in approach will show an improvement, and she's certainly far too young to start thinking of her as an aggressive dog. Rather than physically move her away try to call her away and reward her for coming, it's possible that when you physically move her she is treating you in the same way as a litter mate and she's trying to stop you interfering with her. To stop her eating so fast there anti-bolt bowls you can buy which come in different sizes.
Re: Lots of training questions -- long I'll reiterate what I said in my previous post. If you believe it to be aggression, which is impossible to know without seeing her, its imperative you arrange a consultation with a behaviourist as soon as possible. Taking her to the vet is a good idea to rule out anything medical. The fact you had her so young (which I know wasn't your idea, so don't feel I'm having a go) will certainly have exacerbated lots of these problems, because she has missed out on crucial training by her mother and siblings. Labs are very bitey as puppies anyway, but adding the lack of parental tutelage on top means you were almost destined to have these problems with her. If you don't have experience with these sorts of issues, then getting the advice and help of someone who does will set you up for success. Delaying it will mean you have a harder task with a bigger, stronger dog down the line - or the prospect of giving her up. On the food issue - Labs are notorious for inhaling their food. It certainly can matter, as it makes them more susceptible to bloat, which I mentioned in my previous post, and is a killer. There are special bowls you can get, or you could try adding water, which slows some dogs down (including my own). Alternatively, you can forego the traditional meal and feed her tiny bits at more regular intervals through the day, or in kongs and other stimulating food-dispensing toys, which will also keep her mind occupied.
Re: Lots of training questions -- long My dog trainer sometimes just throws her dogs kibble into the garden for them to find and eat. It's keeps them busy much longer while they hunt for all the kibble. I agree with Snowbunny about the behaviourist. Your vet may be able to recommend someone in the first instance as a consultation may hlp you with a consistent approach and a plan to go forward.
Re: Lots of training questions -- long This puppy is only nine weeks old and trying to make sense of the world. I see many, many Lab and GR pups (I'm a guide dog puppy walker) and I think you could well be expecting far too much of this one. She's only a baby. Of course you need to prevent her from hurting you or damaging your clothes/belongings. But all of your methods need to be gentle. They also need to be consistent so that she knows what is expected of her. Some pups are more bitey than others. I know one guide dog pup who is also nine weeks old and her puppy walker's trousers are in shreds! They grow out of it. It took Gypsy 'till she was five months old - she was a total crocapup! Whenever anyone tells me they are thinking of getting a Lab I say "you do know that Lab pups are total crocodiles?" My friend, who breeds schnausers, came to visit when Tatze was 11 weeks old. She put her hand in Tatze's mouth and I said 'don't let her bite you' she replied 'oh, I'm used to pups ------ OWCH!! She didn't put her hand in Tatze's mouth again!
Re: Lots of training questions -- long Good luck, it's not easy, but it is wonderful when all the patience and persistence pays off. Ignore the bad, praise the good!! It really works
