Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg155928#msg155928 date=1428816965] How old is Lumpy now? Have you got a fully fledged teenager on your hands? ;D ;D ;D [/quote] 7 months. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg155928#msg155928 date=1428816965] Great about the recall and lead walking though! [/quote] Other dogs are still challenging.
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg156166#msg156166 date=1428867035] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg155928#msg155928 date=1428816965] How old is Lumpy now? Have you got a fully fledged teenager on your hands? ;D ;D ;D [/quote] 7 months. [/quote] That'd do it alright. ;D ;D ;D
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg156182#msg156182 date=1428870690] [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg156166#msg156166 date=1428867035] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg155928#msg155928 date=1428816965] How old is Lumpy now? Have you got a fully fledged teenager on your hands? ;D ;D ;D [/quote] 7 months. [/quote] That'd do it alright. ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Shush, woman! At eight months, I've only seen slight glimpses of teenage behaviour which I seem to have trained out pretty quickly. I'm fully in La-La Land, believing that we're not going to have the terrible teenagedom. Surely it doesn't happen to every dog? La la la la la!! ;D
Re: Lumpy's Log The first home game was played at the soccer ground where Lumpy & I walk every day. I really had trouble calling him off the 1/2 eaten hot dogs & other tasty morsels left lying around. I'm trying to get Lumpy to sit on command - when he's 2-3 metres away. He keeps walking towards me & sits in front of me like I've recalled him. Any tips?
Re: Lumpy's Log If you want to be able to tell your dog to leave hot dogs, then train with hotdogs. So, get out the hotdogs, put them in a dish on the floor, have your dog on a lead, and reward him first for stopping pulling towards them, then for looking at you (or sitting, or whatever you want him to do). Then for walking by them on lead, then off lead, and so on. Or use them for leave it training in the same way as anything else. Then repeat in the garden, in a field....and so on. There was a recent thread on stop whistle with different ideas, and links to so articles, here: http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=10612.msg157216#msg157216 Let us know how you get on.
Re: Lumpy's Log Lumpy is officially Deaf. For the last 2 days he has refused to recall or heal. He is pulling on the lead & distracted by clouds. The worst thing is that he is annoying other people in the park & jumping all over them when he was previously ignoring them. Even sprinting over 100 metres to get to them. He has never been like this. And things were going extremely well.
Re: Lumpy's Log Ah, yes, the classic case of teenage deafness..... Ok, what's the plan? What have you tried so far?
Re: Lumpy's Log Back to basics. Recall when close & better rewards fo compliance. I've tried very hard not to lose my cool when he's bothered other people. He spent 50 minutes of a 1 hour walk on the lead last night. Usually it's 10 minutes on the lead. I had a little practice in the back yard after our last walk with very little success. He was better this morning during our 10 minute play before work. But he's always good in the morning. We will walk later tonight when there's less people in the park.
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg157854#msg157854 date=1429564189] Back to basics. [/quote] Good plan. Do you have a copy of Total Recall? It's really very, very good at helping with this. Do you use a whistle or a verbal cue for recall? I like the whistle because it's a lot more consistent - it's very easy for your frustration to come through in your voice. I still have a voice cue, but it's only used for when the pups are very close already, because I'm not very loud and trying to shout makes my voice sound strained which I don't want to come over to the dogs. You could also consider using a long line if that's appropriate for where you walk. It just means that when he starts to run off, you just step on the line so he can't bother people.
Re: Lumpy's Log I do have a copy of the book. I've stopped reading until I've got some good behaviour down pat. I might need to do some revision. I don't have a training buddy so I'm relying on real live distractions to help me through. I think that is part of my problem. I use a whistle & voice. But I try to get Lumpy's attention by calling his name before I give any commands. Lumpy behaves very differently when attached to a lead so I've avoided using a long line.
Re: Lumpy's Log Tonight's walk was much better, but still nowhere near the standard of 4 days ago. He was slow to recall so I ran away. He soon chased me. I started changing direction when he wasn't looking at me & on one occasion I got to about 50 metres away before he realised I wasn't nearby. Both these things helped improve the recall. There is soccer training every night now so there's plenty of distractions, but quiet areas too. I got into a position where the players jogged past within 10 metres & he was surprisingly well behaved. On the upside Lumpy's retrieves are good & he sits, stands & downs on command, although it's a bit sloppy at times.
Re: Lumpy's Log I lost it tonight. There was no-one at the park tonight so I thought we would have a good walk. Sit, Stay, Stand, Down all worked well. Recall was disgraceful. Lumpy only came when he felt like it. He was distracted by the same rabbit scratchings that he had stepped on, walked past or been called off before. The same trees that had been peed on by the same dogs. I could not get him to recall. If I whistled when he was on the way back he would deviate & stop & sniff the ground. It was like he was saying F.U!! I tried making noise, waving my arms & running away; he did chase me, but just ran past when he caught up to me. I did not chase him. As soon as I got the opportunity I put him on the lead & walked straight home in silence. I fed him & went inside & shut the curtains so he couldn't see me. After consistent improvements since Lumpy first came home this week has been so frustrating it's not funny.
Re: Lumpy's Log Well, it could be a few things - but it sounds, mostly likely, that you do not have a recall that is proofed at all. It isn't relevant that he will follow other cues. So you need to get out your total recall book, and start working through the exercises by the sound of it. [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg158300#msg158300 date=1429704197] As soon as I got the opportunity I put him on the lead & walked straight home in silence. I fed him & went inside & shut the curtains so he couldn't see me. [/quote] That's not going to help.
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg158353#msg158353 date=1429713530] [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg158300#msg158300 date=1429704197] As soon as I got the opportunity I put him on the lead & walked straight home in silence. I fed him & went inside & shut the curtains so he couldn't see me. [/quote] That's not going to help. [/quote] Um... Yes it is. The oldback yard trainer that used discipline would have come out. I never want to go back there again. I did that to avoid his appearance.
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg158411#msg158411 date=1429730497] Um... Yes it is. The oldback yard trainer that used discipline would have come out. I never want to go back there again. I did that to avoid his appearance. [/quote] You want your dog to come back? Then make it worth his while. What you going to do - chase your dog down from a distance of 400m with your "oldback yard trainer" trick? Within 3 seconds of his error so he knows what he is being punished for? Good luck with that, Linford Christie.
Re: Lumpy's Log I honestly don't think that Lumpy can pair the fact that he failed to recall with you putting him straight back on the lead and then drawing the curtains so that he couldn't see you. He didn't ignore you on purpose, he just didn't understand what you wanted. We think they are being disobedient but we haven't actually taught them what we want. It takes ages to proof a behaviour
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg158411#msg158411 date=1429730497] Um... Yes it is. The oldback yard trainer that used discipline would have come out. I never want to go back there again. I did that to avoid his appearance. [/quote] Do you mean you closed the curtains to allow yourself time to calm down and not react the way you used to? I can understand that if so It's hard embracing a new approach but I agree with Stacia Proofing in order to get a conditioned response is hard work and takes time. In order to stick with the new way you've chosen it's important to understand that dogs aren't purposefully disobedient they are just motivated by what works for them. Take a step back and reward, reward, reward for easy recalls. Make them great fun and/or very tasty things to do, then up your level of difficulty again keeping the three D's in mind distance, duration and (probably your challenge here) distraction. Stay really close if the distraction level (rabbit poo, dog pee etc is high) is high. Good luck!
Re: Lumpy's Log [quote author=bbrown link=topic=9751.msg158607#msg158607 date=1429798738] [quote author=Lumpy link=topic=9751.msg158411#msg158411 date=1429730497] Um... Yes it is. The oldback yard trainer that used discipline would have come out. I never want to go back there again. I did that to avoid his appearance. [/quote] Do you mean you closed the curtains to allow yourself time to calm down and not react the way you used to? I can understand that if so [/quote] Correct. Thanks for understanding Barbara. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9751.msg158414#msg158414 date=1429731394] You want your dog to come back? Then make it worth his while. What you going to do - chase your dog down from a distance of 400m with your "oldback yard trainer" trick? Within 3 seconds of his error so he knows what he is being punished for? Good luck with that, Linford Christie. [/quote] Julie, I never have & never will chase him & make a game of it, but when he is annoying people or scaring children I need to get there to remove him as quickly as I can. I think Lumpy knows exactly what I want, its just not as rewarding as what he wants OR; he's so fixed on the distraction that he gets tunnel vision & doesn't hear me. Lumpy has become more aware of his surroundings. I think things that weren't a distraction before have become distractions now. Smells are now a big thing. He has his nose high in the air or on the ground a lot more than he did 2 weeks ago. I actually thought the proofing was coming along nicely & I was trying to challenge him. To lose so much ground in a very short time & struggle to get any back is extremely frustrating. It is only the recall that we're struggling with. Everything else is fine.
Re: Lumpy's Log I can sympathise with losing a recall. I had the same thing. It was pointed out that the fabulous recall I had had, and thought I would never lose because I worked on it frequently, was a puppy recall; now I needed to work on the adult one. Now they're teenagers, their environment is a lot more stimulating to them and, sadly, we just aren't the most exciting thing in the world anymore. Dogs are inherently selfish; they do what suits them most almost exclusively. So, using positive methods, this means we have to make ourselves SO much more appealing once those hormones are racing around their bodies and minds, in order to make the behaviour we're after more rewarding than their environment. In the first instance, I've been working on keeping my dogs closer to me. They were starting to wander a bit too far away for comfort, so I do a lot of C&Ting for checking in. The treat may be a piece of food delivered by hand, or thrown to chase, or to catch. It may be a pine cone to go and chase, or a ball if I'm feeling super generous. I need to work on their enthusiasm for other toys so that I can use those, too. They don't know what they're getting when they check in, but they know it's going to be something GOOD, so they stay close. Alongside this, when on lead, I've done a lot of "look at that" with Willow especially. This is working wonders when it comes to her seeing something she'd react to and then checking in with me first. This helps with stopping her before she runs off; to be fair, they've never been particularly interested in running up to strange dogs or people, but if they see someone they know, they will want to go and say hi, so the pause to look at me allows me to mark that so they come back to me for a treat so we can go on in a calmer manner. Finally, I'm still not using my recall whistle in situations I'm unsure they'll recall from. I'm using it a lot when they're already running towards me. And I make sure it's absolutely worth their while when they get to me - with super high value treats, a lot of squeaky, exciting praise (as opposed to a pat on the head and a "good girl/boy"), and usually a game as well, even if it's just "catch this breadstick". I find it easier to control my frustration when I try and understand why something is happening. In this case, it's hormones making things that weren't interesting before seem super exciting now. So we have to go back many, many steps to start the proofing process again. I'm also completely new to this positive lark, although I don't come from a background of doing any significant training using other methods, but it's still a massive learning curve to me. Without the guidance from here, I'm sure I'd have become overly frustrated by now that things were breaking. Reading about so many other people having the same issues, though, makes me realise that it's absolutely normal and there's nothing wrong with my dogs
Re: Lumpy's Log Thanks for your post Fiona. It makes me feel a lot better about the way things are (or aren't) going. Lumpy was much better on his walk this morning. I took him early when I knew there would be no-one at the park and there would be fewer distractions. We only worked on recall and had a little throw of the Frisbee.
