Mouthing when examined

Discussion in 'Labrador Training' started by Joy, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    OK this isn't about Molly but about two dogs in the good citizen class I take at our dog club (I'm unpaid and unqualified). One is a Lab and the other a border collie cross Lab, both almost a year old.For the silver award they have to be examined by the KC assessor - whole body touched, including ears and mouth. The Lab just gets very silly when I try to run my hands over her - she's clearly excited rather than frightened - and mouths my arm. It doesn't hurt at all but obviously to pass the test she has to allow the handling. The owner said that she was generally better at home and thinks it is the fact that she knows I have treats that is making her silly.
    The colliexLab throws himself on his back on the floor and also mouths, though exerts more pressure, I think perhaps he is scared and I don't try to push it. His owners say he is just the same with them at home.
    This evening I suggested just a touch to a leg and then remove hand and reward with food, but neither dog would allow even this without mouthing. The owners have said they will try this at home when it's peaceful. (I'm not quite sure how they passed bronze as the owner has to examine their own dog for that.)

    Anyway I'd be grateful for any suggestions for things I can do or ask the owners to do.
     
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  2. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

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    Do you do clicker training at your class? Just wondering if taking it slowing and shaping for handling might help. Worked a treat with Charlie for lots of handling, teeth, ears and nail clipping. xx
     
  3. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    I've given a brief explanation of how to use a clicker but could go into more detail. The thing is when would we click as even the slightest touch this evening was leading to mouthing?
     
  4. Emily

    Emily Registered Users

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    What happens if you stand next to the dog, with your hands by your side, not touching it at all? Perhaps that's the first step?
     
  5. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    With showing, we do a couple of things. We start with a stick of bait by their noses, letting them nibble tiny bits off at a time while the "judge" runs their hands over the body. You also work on the dog standing rock solid, so no feet moving. Get the dog to focus on a point - a finger is useful - and not move their feet, even if that point moves. When your dog is happy nibbling the bait while a judge handles them, and has learnt to stand still without any touching, you ca start combining the two.
     
  6. charlie

    charlie Registered Users

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    Do the owners clicker train? If so they could work on not touching = no mouthing so C&T if you see what I mean and then build it up to a slight touch. x
     
  7. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    The Collie x is fine with no touching. One exercise is polite greeting -the owner has to chat to me ( the assessor in the test) with the dog on lead next to them. The dog mustn't jump up and the Collie x doesn't. The Lab occasionally jumps up at me -clearly excitement -but I turn away and move forward when it's sitting again. Perhaps we need to do more of this.
     
  8. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    I've tried having food in one hand, and getting the owner to hold food but as soon as I touch they move and mouth. I'm more concerned about the Collie x as he seems quite stressed -the Lab just wants to leap around and play.
    I'm not quite sure what a bait stick is, but I could try to find something solid that they could lick -I suppose a wooden spoon dipped in cream cheese might do.
     
  9. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Does the Collie have a reliable stand? If not, that's a basic skill that needs to be taught before you can introduce having a person appproach.

    With the Labrador, keep doing what you're doing but have the owners hold a handful of food in front of the dog's nose, releasing little bits at a time in a constant stream. Like Snowbunny said. The rate of treats can gradually be reduced and their location can change to a pocket. You should be ready to do the world's fastest U-turn as soon as the dog moves a foot off the ground.
     
  10. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Don't try to touch either dog just yet. You slightly moving a hand in their direction is probably enough. When they can handle that, then next time move your hand a bit closer, or even just bend down a bit more. When you do get to the touch stage, touch on the chest and for a microsecond only.

    This is going to take quite a while. Patience and breaking it down into the smallest possible steps will be important.
     
  11. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    No the Collie x is quite a handful ( in the hall anyway -on a forest walk he's much more relaxed) and doesn't stand on cue, though he will sit next to me, so yes perhaps that needs to be taught first.
     
  12. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    The "stick of bait" is just a longish strip of food, often roast pork, beef or liver. Something that holds together well. But, yes, focus on the stand first.
    A trick that show people use is holding the food to the nose and then quickly whipping it away in an upwards arc. The dog will stand, stock-still, for a second, watching the hand. You can click this and then work on duration. If you have a finger out when you do this, that finger can become the cue for "look here" when the bait is faded (although, for the show ring, we don't have to fade the bait).
    Jane Killion has some useful videos on Puppy Culture - "Killer Free Stack" and "Attention is the Mother of all Behaviors" might be worth a look.
     
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  13. lucky_dog

    lucky_dog Registered Users

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    Lucky is a lot like the description of the collie cross. I find that once he understands a situation he is ok, but if he doesn't know what's going to happen or what he's supposed to do, he gets into a nervous/anxious excitement.

    It's hard to get this sort of dog to just stand still, without giving them something to do or focus on. I'd suggest anything out of eye contact with the owner, look at that, hand touch or chin rest - as it's not a show, I guess you are allowed to do this. I think just teaching a stand might not be enough, you may need to give him something to actively focus on.

    How you approach him might make a difference too - approaching head on making eye contact is more stressful than approaching in an arc and not making eye contact. A lot of collie type dogs are incredibly sensitive to body language and tone of voice.

    Also, how do the owners usually handle him at home? It would definitely be worth them doing handling work with him if he also gets like this with them. I would use a mat for handling, and use words to let him know what they are doing - paw, foot, ears, mouth, etc.
     
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