My puppy is stronger than I....need leash help!!!

...and there's LOADS of colours available

 

I have real problem with gripping now due to my difficult companion and its been a godsend. The stand is in hall one at crufts, I'm going to get another

 

I don't think in my experience getting a dog to walk well has anything to do with leads or harnesses. For a start putting a harness on any dog is only going to encourage them to pull. We have found a great way to train our pooch on and off the lead is with a pet safe shock collar. It's a great way of teaching and controlling your dog. The collar gives out a warning bleep before any vibration shock so after a few uses you don't even use the shock function as the dog understands the bleep as a warning and to correct what they are doing. For anyone claiming they are cruel just tell that to our family friend who's dog chased after a rabbit ignored all calls from the owner and got hit and killed by a car last month!

 

I have to disagree. A harness does NOT encourage a dog to pull - how can it? A harness spreads the load of a hefty dog, when it pulls, across its chest rather than concentrating it on it's neck and the vulnerable structures within. Neither does a harness discourage a dog from pulling. A harness protects the dog. The idea is to train the dog, with kindness, that walking nicely on a lead is a good thing to do, so that the dog wants to do this. Chasing rabbits is nothing to do with loose lead walking either.
I am really sorry for your friend, they must be devastated.

 

Agree with Sue. There is a reason shock collars are illegal in many countries. They are cruel and unnecessary. Even if you use the shock just once and never need to use it again, it's still cruel. You're using fear to control your dog. It also doesn't train in most cases, as they don't "behave" if the collar isn't on. Having a dog that chases rabbits, leading to it being killed isn't down to lack of shock collar, that's down to lack of training and management. "Ignored all calls" says it all. The dog wasn't trained.

Also disagree that harnesses cause pulling. That's nonsense. What about a harness would possibly encourage a dog to pull? If, by this, you simply mean that it's less painful for them to pull, then that's fair enough, but that's great. You know, I don't want my dog to be in pain whilst learning to walk nicely, thank you very much. And, just looking around at your average dog on the street, pulling against their collar, wheezing and choking as they do so, it doesn't appear that they pay much heed to that pain anyway. No, I'd rather have my dog in a harness that means, whilst they are learning not to pull, they don't hurt themselves.

 

I agree completely with Sue and Fiona. I want my dog,Bailey to respond to my recall because he wants to. Not because he's scared he'll be hurt if he doesn't. That's no way to build a relationship with your dog! I want my dog to enjoy my company the same way I enjoy his.

 

I really hate the thought of a shock collar and would like to see them banned. There are other effective ways to stop a dog from pulling which don't involve hurting it.

 

Shock collars don't teach anything but pain. Give yourself a shock and see. They obey because of fear They have not learnt to walk nicely on a lead just avoid pain. I prefer not to treat my friends like that.

 

No, everything about shock collars is wrong and teaches the dog nothing. Imagine hurting a dog in another way, with your hands, and you wouldn't contemplate it. Doing it remotely is NO better.

Your friend's story is tragic, but she should never have walked a dog with no recall somewhere there was even a tiny possibility of being near cars.

The Total Recall book is the best for training recall.

For lead walking stopping EVERY time they pull works. Ask for a 'sit' or simply wait for a slack lead, be calm and unhurried.

I do have a harness for Tatze because she will pull backwards out of her collar if she sees a cat. So any road walking involves a harness for her. She walks on a loose lead otherwise.

The pups just have collars and are trained to never pull. It's best to JUST train when out walking so that you are not trying to get anywhere - I find that by the time the pups are six months old I have to stop or turn tail very rarely. It's about consistency and determination.



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If you have facebook, have a look for "Perthshire Gundog Rescue Dog Training" on there. There is a 2 part video of the chap demonstrating a shock collar on himself. It is a really hard video to watch when you have in the back of your mind that there are dogs that have to go through this. I was in tears, but watched it to the end.

 

I was sent the link for that a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't watch it right through. Even the 'low' shocks are clearly painful and frightening.

 

Its Legal torture .

 

No one on here has a right to say what is right or wrong! It's all about opinions. My dog wears his collar every day haven't even needed to give him anything over than a warning tone - no shock in 6 months! But it's there if I need it. No one can say 100 percent that a 1 year old Labrador will not chase after something or run into a wire fence! What is cruel is a dog that is pulling his owner down the road damaging their necks or a dog that's never allowed to run around freely. Best bit of kit I ever bought and the shock is only a tingle I've tried it on my self I guess it's like a slip lead if used correctly can be a great tool but if abused can be cruel.

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=778301805660305

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=778353898988429

Someone on that video commented with this:

"This is not how that collar is meant to be used in training! Used correctly, it is completely humane! You'll never catch me lecturing on forensic science, why? Because I know nothing about it and it is not my area of expertise!! Giving a 'high' level of stimulation to a dog can serve a purpose for training a 'conditioned punisher'. I.e. If my dog kept wanting to sprint across a motorway I need to stop this or my dog will die. If I shout "no" and hit the collar, after a while, the dog will anticipate the correction and stop in its tracts. During this time there is no competing motivator (motorway) and I can recall him with his excitement for the ball. Ask your self this, "what is worse, 3 repetitions of unpleasantness to condition the word "no" or my dog dying?" Baring in mind, that in this example the motorway is the most enjoyable thing to the dog so there is no positive reinforcement (by its self) that will work. This is not A complex association at all. It is the most basics of classical conditioning but once conditioned, it falls under operate conditioning. If you have zero idea of "assassination of ideas" then obviously you won't understand how the dog will react to a very low level of stimulation."

It's an argument I see quite often.
I was going to give a fuller response, but I just got crosser and crosser, so now my response is, why does everyone use the excuse of "stops the dog running across a road and getting killed". Put your dog on a frickin' lead, you moron.

Anyone else want to chip in with something a bit more thorough, be my guest.

 

the point I'm making is forget about the shock aspect. I can take the pins off the collar so it isn't even possible to shock the dog but by using the warning beep he knows he is Doing wrong and corrects his action. It's like a mobile clicker trainer. I am not for one second saying any prat that sit there giving his dog a electric shock isn't cruel!

 

You are still training your dog to avoid the punishment out of fear that's all. Wouldn't you rather train your dog because he wants to as he will receive a treat or toy reward?. It's not a mobile clicker at all, a clicker is positive training with a click to mark a good behaviour then a treat, the collar you are using with pins in or not is cruel and totally negative to your dog Try positive training and I am sure you will find this very rewarding and so will your dog. Give it a go.

 

Yes of course it's an opinion that shock collars are wrong, in the same way that it's an opinion that child abuse or GFM are wrong. You have the right to express your opinion but those of us who strongly disagree have the equal right to say so strongly.

Your collar is not like a clicker. a clicker is a signal to a dog that it has done something right and that a reward is coming. Your collar on vibrate signals that something is wrong and that if it continues then pain will result.

You do not need an electric collar to keep your dog safe. They are illegal in Wales and thankfully rare in England and here most people allow their dog off lead in safe places. On or near roads, you keep your dog on a lead. You train your dog (either with food rewards or by stopping when they pull) to walk nicely on a lead, and while they're still learning they wear a harness so that they don't hurt their neck.

If you can take the pins off your collar so that you can't be tempted to shock your dog, then please do so.

 

Clickers mark good behaviour. Just as a verbal 'good' or 'yes' would. It's important to mark as the behaviour happens then treat asap after the mark. I use 'good' in a certain tone of voice as I'm hopeless at juggling clickers and treats, but it's just as effective if you keep it for training purposes and don't use it unthinkingly, if you see what I mean.

I was hit for bad behaviour at school (on the hands with a ruler and on the bum with a strap). I did modify my behaviour and I also hated the teachers who did it to me. I am dyslexic and was hit for not knowing spellings - the teacher lined us up to be hit at the end of the lesson. I became a teacher myself in order to teach children with fairness and kindness, this I did - very successfully - for 40 years. Pain does not teach anyone anything.

Hurting people or animals, for any reason, is a bad idea. They will never trust you.



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@Boogie thats a great point about teaching, I too had a wooden blackboard rubber thrown at me across the classroom in primary school because I was rubbish at maths, the teacher picked on me to humiliate and frighten me and he got exactly what he wanted, I was 11 years old and lived in fear of this "man". I saw this teacher some years ago and felt physically sick and I am grown up. He affected me years and years on and I am still rubbish at maths.

Kindness, patience, TRUST and continuety win the day, always x

 

Because he is afraid of the pain you're threatening. Lovely. Tell yourself it's not inhumane if you like, but don't take offence if I think you're fooling yourself. You're "training" your dog through fear. Luckily, most of us on this forum choose to use kinder methods.

Consider this; if shock collars were truly the best way of modifying behaviour, wouldn't associations like Guide Dogs for the Blind use them? After all, these highly trained dogs have not just their life in their hands, but also the life of their human.