I am fresh out of ideas here. Is it possible that my lab puppy is too food obsessed to train him with food? He is a good listener but as soon as food is in the mix he won't focus on anything but the training treat. He is good with waiting until I give the command to eat, but trying to get him to fetch when treats are near is a complete lost cause. Thank you in advance for any tips or ideas.
Hi, I'm not quite sure I'm qualified to answer, it's quite a broad question I think the first thing is to teach him to behave around food, so that he understands he has to earn his reward. There are various exercises you can do for this, which I think you would find on the main site. Also he needs to know what he is getting his treat for, do you use a marker word or clicker? I think you need to start with something basic eye contact. There are lots of games you can play. I don't know how to do links, maybe @snowbunny or @Beanwood or @Boogie will pop along to help
My Mollie was completely obsessed with food - they do turn out the easiest to train once you get the technique that suits them. My Bruce had no interest in food at all, he was really hard to train! Something to try - Put the food on a shelf/surface high out of the pup’s reach. Use ‘pretend’ food to lure the dog in position (hold fingers as if food were there). When the pup has done what you ask immediately mark the action (good, yes or click). Then give the reward from the shelf. I agree with @selina27 that clicker training would be good for your pup, here is a link - https://www.thelabradorsite.com/clicker-training-whats-it-all-about/
Yes, I agree with @Boogie, you need to keep the treats out of sight as they are wayyyyy to distracting right now! For me, that would be likened to holding a Cadburys creme egg under my nose and expect me to work out complex arithmetic..(or even simple arithmetic!). Work on a marker word, for example, "Yes!"To mark the behaviour you want, sit, paw, down...use the marker the exact moment the behaviour occurs, deliver the treat about 2 seconds later. Don't rush it. Clickers are also good, largely because the sound is precise and consistent. The clicker sound doesn't fade into white noise like "Good boy!" or "OK " can, meaning these phrases are common language to your puppy. The kikopup youtube channel has some great advice on clicker training pups, I especially like the ones on training good behaviours, like how to be calm, go to bed, biting...etc..which in the early days is the most I focus on with a young pup https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qnqaajTk6bfs3UZuue6IQ How to ignore the treat bag, part of the kikopup library
I My boy Legend is the same way once treats come out he is a lost cause on doing what I want him to do so I switched to praise and a ball. We do the command sit or stand, heel whatever I am working on I praise him do the command a couple of times then he gets the ball for a couple of retrieves then I go back to command, praise, command praise , command praise.....ball.
In order to use food effectively, your dog has to be trained to be able to work around food. For some dogs, this is easy because they don't find food very distracting. For other dogs it's much harder. It's massively worth it for all dogs though. First because not being able to train with food is a terrible hinderance - food is just so convenient. And second because if your dog can't even concentrate around food you risk them being one of those horribly annoying dogs that can't leave anyone with food alone! You just don't want to be one of those owners who glare at people with treat bags (as their dog ignores its recall and glues its nose to a stranger's pocket/bag) and accuse the person of having food on them! I meet many of those people....their dogs are unable to move away from a person with food. You really must be able to stop your dog on the way to food, and recall away from food, and being able to train with food around is food 101 really... Thirdly, if your dog is that keen on food - the biggest distractions are also the biggest reinforcers - just think how much faster your training would be if you used food! I didn't start with my food obsessed dog with food far away, I started with it right under her nose - and she got it by backing away, then by looking at me, then doing what I asked. So you just play 'it's yer choice' with food until they get the idea that mugging you for it, doing nothing and staring at it, and so on, gets zilch. Only by backing off and listening do they get the food.
First off thank you all for taking the time to try and help me. Second I want to apologize for being very vague. My lab is 2 years old and very much a puppy still. He is very well trained can sit, stay, heel, comes on command, walks great on and off a leash, waits for a command to eat, I can pull him off food with a command, and rarely begs, but.... He very rarely will fetch and not for longer than a throw or two. I tried praise and then treats, but praise only works a tiny bit and as soon as a treat is in the mix he wants nothing to do with the ball or stick. I guess I just don't understand a lab that doesn't want to fetch. Because he is so food obsessed I feel like if I could just get him to fetch once or twice and get him the treat reward he would be hooked for life, but it doesn't seem to work. Like @Beanwood said I think it is just too distracting.
My Cassie is very similar, she blows hot and cold with it, I've had collies that wanted to retrieve more! She would much rather hunt. I am resigned to the fact that she's never going to be the keenest retriever, but there are things you can do like the clicker retrieve. I have recently reinstated playing tug with her, and have discovered that what really gets her engaged playing with me is if I drag a toy behind me and am hoping to build on that in the great outdoors. She would much rather use her hunting genes At the end of the day we can only work with the dog we've got, and I find that with +R techniques, play and so forth, that the training becomes the rewarding thing for me because of the interaction involved, and I think less about the eventual outcome. For instance with the clicker retrieve the dog is working with you to work out what you want and how to earn the reward. I hope that makes sense.
I know your dog is not a puppy, but it might be worth looking at Susan Garrett’s puppy retrieve. (Fast forward to about 2.30 to actually get to the demo.) Or, a completely different method to get a formal retrieve is here: https://www.2coolbcs.com/shaping-the-dumbbell-retreive.html I used this last one with Molly to get a competition style delivery, but she already retrieved as a game.
It will work, it will definitely work. It is so common that a dog who isn't used to working around food, won't move away from the food. But you can't start with playing fetch and using treats. You've got to start with the dog being able to concentrate around food first! Like this: http://www.dogtrainergames.com/its-yer-choice/
@JulieT and others. Again thank you for taking the time to help me. I have been working a lot on the food impulse training that the video suggestion gave. I thought that since he would wait until I gave the okay to eat that he was okay, but the video has helped a lot. I really like the part about "Do you want to "always control your dog or do you want the dog to control itself" Because he is two we will have to unlearn some of his impulses around treat, but it is a process and will work after time. Thank you so much for the help
