Neturing advice

Discussion in 'Labrador breeding & genetics' started by nampah, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. Karen

    Karen Moderator

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    Re: Neturing advice

    Julie, why does Charlie have an endorsement?
     
  2. heidrun

    heidrun Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Neturing advice

    [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9835.msg142777#msg142777 date=1423524413]
    Charlie has an endorsement. It seems pretty strict, his pups can't be registered. I wonder how easy it would be to remove?

    (For the avoidance of any doubt, I have no intention of allowing Charlie to play his part in bringing any mini Charlie hooligans into the world.... ;D ).
    [/quote]

    It is not uncommon for breeders to put endorsements on the puppies they breed. Usually the breeder will lift these when all necessary health checks like hip scoring and eye testing have been done.
     
  3. heidrun

    heidrun Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Neturing advice

    Just to add that breeders might also put an endorsement on a single pup from a litter for whatever reason. Could be an undershot jaw or entropion or something like that.
     
  4. Karen

    Karen Moderator

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    Re: Neturing advice

    I see, that makes sense.

    Things are done the other way round here. You can ONLY breed if your dog passes certain health tests (hips, elbows, eyes - and certain genetic tests).
     
  5. heidrun

    heidrun Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Neturing advice

    [quote author=Karen link=topic=9835.msg142829#msg142829 date=1423559433]
    I see, that makes sense.

    Things are done the other way round here. You can ONLY breed if your dog passes certain health tests (hips, elbows, eyes - and certain genetic tests).
    [/quote]

    I think that's why breeders put endorsements on puppies here, Karen, to ensure that the new owners of these pups will do all the necessary health tests and the results are satisfactory before they think about breeding from these dogs.
     
  6. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Re: Neturing advice

    All of the litter that Charlie came from had endorsements. The breeder shows her dogs and the terms and conditions prevent export or registration of any pups from the dogs she has sold. I understand it is to protect her interest in the breeding line, nothing else. There is a get out in that the terms allow her to agree and waive the endorsement, but completely at her discretion - there are no criteria specified to meet that means she will agree....
     
  7. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Re: Neturing advice

    [quote author=nampah link=topic=9835.msg142759#msg142759 date=1423521740]
    so I may just hold out :eek: :-\
    [/quote]

    We were in the watch and wait camp ...then I had a really eye opening experience with a bitch in season in the park ,Dexter went nuts and his power frightened me....we live in a Very dog unfriendly country and dogs should officially never be off leash ( unofficially they are ) so I needed to rethink as him getting to a bitch in season here would be a catastrophe ....but I was determined to wait until he was fully mature.Circumstances overtook me though when he needed a tail op at 13 months...we took advantage of the GA and had him neutered at the same time.
     
  8. Janine Melhuish

    Janine Melhuish Registered Users

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    We were in the watch and wait camp ...then I had a really eye opening experience with a bitch in season in the park ,Dexter went nuts and his power frightened me....we live in a Very dog unfriendly country and dogs should officially never be off leash ( unofficially they are ) so I needed to rethink as him getting to a bitch in season here would be a catastrophe ....but I was determined to wait until he was fully mature.Circumstances overtook me though when he needed a tail op at 13 months...we took advantage of the GA and had him neutered at the same time.[/QUOTE]
    Hi there Angela (and Dexter) can I ask if there were any behavioural changes, ie did he become subdued and lose interest ?? Thanks Janine
     
  9. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Dexter definately did NOT become subdued or lose interest in anything! He's a pretty high energy boy and is very stimulated by his environment.He can be lead reactive in some situations and I have wondered if this could have been anything to do with him being neutered although only as a contributing factor not the main reason.....I've recently had a few session with a behaviourist and she thought not after I talked through our history with her.She believes it's been a combination of his breeding,personality and early experiences with clutzy me me not knowing what I was doing with my first dog....
    Hope that helps a bit?
    X
     
  10. Janine Melhuish

    Janine Melhuish Registered Users

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    That helps a lot! Thank you xx
     
  11. MF

    MF Registered Users

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    @nampah I just assumed we'd neuter Snowie because that's what everyone in my area does. But then I started reading about the effects of early neuter. He was in doggy daycare and I was told he had to leave at 6 months as the doggy daycare rules were that all dogs had to be neutered/spayed by 6 months. Apparently he was doing a lot of humping at the daycare when he was almost 6 months although I never saw it so I don't know what "a lot" meant.

    I remember crying the evening I drove home from doggy daycare the last time Snowie was allowed there; it seemed like such a major decision to keep him intact and deprive him of doggy daycare.

    Anyway, the longer we left him unneutered, the more we were convinced to leave him that way. He went through a humpy stage at around 1 years old and it lasted till about 2 years old. He's now 4.5 years old and the calmest boy you'll meet. He seldom mounts other dogs although in the three times we've come across bitches in heat, he's gone crazy with desire and had to be dragged away. We live in a secure garden so he can never get out if a bitch in heat walked past.

    We are happy the way he is and have no reason to neuter him. He is very friendly and not aggressive although he does not like every dog we meet, but doesn't react badly, just stiffens up and walks away. Not all dogs like him, and one wonders if that is because he has balls, but I reckon not all dogs like each other either, balls or not. In general, all his encounters with other dogs are happy ones.

    Best of luck with your decision. Whatever you do, I'd suggest waiting till your boy is fully grown and had the benefit of male hormones to fully develop, not only his body, but also his confidence.
     
  12. MF

    MF Registered Users

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    Well... that will teach me to check dates!!!! I see that the person I was responding to asked this question in Feb 2015!! I wonder what he/she decided to do??
     
  13. Ski-Patroller

    Ski-Patroller Cooper, Terminally Cute Forum Supporter

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    We have delayed with Cooper, but plan to have her spayed in early October. Her first season was a lot less traumatic than I expected, but we never plan to breed her, and I don't want to worry about unplanned pups. In our county, it costs quite a bit more to license a dog that has not been neutered. I think this is common in the US.
     
  14. MF

    MF Registered Users

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    My sister neutered her then 4-year-old dog (Beagle mix, he is now about 8 years old), and she was incentivised because it cost a lot more to licence an unneutered dog where she lives (as well as being told that neutering was best because that's what everyone else does). She regrets it though -- he has cost her a lot more than the licence fees in anxious behaviour: he has chewed and scratched doors and windows (destroyed them) when left alone with the other dog (a female Husky who is calm) and she pays two dog walkers to walk him (one in the morning, one in the afternoon) when she's at work. She says he became anxious after being neutered. He's also food obsessed and has put on a lot of weight since being neutered. Of course this is just one dog and there are sure to be other factors so it is difficult to know if one can extrapolate to other dogs; am going only on what my sister has said. But I think, if cost is a factor, one should think more about total cost rather than just the licence costs.
     
  15. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    I had a very early (8 week) neuter boy so not really comparable to what Ski-patroller is talking about, but we also fought against the anxious thing. He overcame it in nearly all circumstances (gunshots/fireworks/thunder still did him in throughout his life), but it was a constant factor in his training.

    A study was done on Rottweilers around spaying/neutering. One of the interesting findings was that while un-spayed females had on average 2 years more longevity than males, this advantage was completely eradicated if the females were spayed. I don't know if it would be good to apply this to Labs, as a major cause of mortality in Rotties (especially males) is bone cancer, which (thankfully) does not seem so problematic in Labs, but I still thought it would be worth mentioning.
     
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  16. Beanwood

    Beanwood Registered Users

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    Hi @Emily_BabbelHund do you have a reference for this study?

    Was it this one?

    Quote: ref:

    Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk - Dawn M Cooley

    From study discussion:


    "Our study, using a naturally occurring model of bone sarcoma, shows that risk of bone sarcoma is significantly increased by elective gonadectomy early in life. Exposure to endogenous sex hormones appears to be protective, as suggested by the high risk for bone sarcoma in male and female dogs that undergo gonadectomy within the first year of life. For each dog, we could accurately obtain age at gonadectomy, which provided"
     
  17. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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  18. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Whoops, those were supposed to be brackets, not sad faces!!
     
  19. IreneM

    IreneM Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    We have an almost 6 month old male lab and a 4 month old female, both are AKC registered yellow labs. Our boy is a Dudley and I love his pink nose and all lol. We thought about letting her have one litter but the cost involved and work we decided not to go this route. I feel there are plenty professional breeders that much better equipped then we are, better to leave it them. Our Vet told we could get our boy neutered as early as 7 month, but after reading this I am not sure I want to go this route. I think for the girl it will be 6 month, both have some time to make a decision. How hard is to control them when one is in heat, being new at this . It has me concerned. Thanks for any help or tips on this subject.
     
  20. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    I have a 3.5 year old entire dog, and a 6 month old girl. I think that so long as you can arrange your house properly (e.g. 2 locked doors between the dogs) then in theory you can manage with both in the same house when the girl has a season. I think though, the entire dog is very likely to be distressed, and in which case you need a back up plan to separate them in two different places. Either one dog goes to stay with family/friends or kennels etc.

    We are planning to separate the dogs, my OH is going to take the boy to a place we have in the country.
     

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