Hi I have a choc lab whose nearly 3years old, we've had him since he was 12 weeks old and have done training up to silver good citizenship. When he was about 18months old we got a black lab bitch, thinking 2 growing up together would be good, it was a nightmare, she learnt very quickly and was very well behaved, but became very dominant over me, I have a disabled son and she wouldn't let me deal with him, or conker (my choc lab), she wasn't aggressive, but would sit between me and conker or my son, I spoke to the puppy trainer at classes and she said i needed to sort it quickly. Conker became very withdrawn and stopped eating and basically hid out in the garden hiding around the corner from her and me. We made the very hard decision to find her a new home, she was with us for about 5 months. Ever since he's become a nervous wreck, he jumps at loud noise's, if you move to fast he runs and hides, if you catch him out, he runs and hides or cowers away from you, he has never been hit or treated badly, if anything he's more like another child. We are also experiences problems with his recall, if no other dogs about he's fine, comes back no problems, if he sees another dog, then he's deaf and I don't exist, no matter how much i shout at him to come back, this is beginning to become a problem, as i'm concerned in case it leads to him getting hurt, or attacked. I'm more concerned about the hiding, and cowering behaviour. He has also been unwell recently and had to stay at vets for 24hrs on drip, this hasn't helped. Any advise welcomed, really want my dopey playful conker back.
Re: new to forum, having some issues Sorry but I can't help with this one, just wanted to say hi and welcome, and I hope you manage to get your concerns sorted out. Lots of experienced people on here who will be able to help I'm sure x
Re: new to forum, having some issues Hi there - welcome to the forum. I'm not sure I can really help much, but Conker sounds a little bit like Lilly. Lilly is a black girl, and will be 4 in May. She really dislikes sudden noises (things being dropped in the kitchen) and loud voices - particularly in the house. Outside she is fine - buses, bird-scarers traffic, no problem. I'm not sure I have the answer to this. She has never been shouted at, scolded or punished in any way that might make any sense for this behaviour. If I am calculating right, it has been the best part of a year that he has been back to being a single dog. It sounds like you have all been through the mill a bit. I'm wondering how he reacts if there is another dog in his house/garden? Is he missing his companion, even though it may have been a love-hate relationship?? Hopefully someone else will have some suggestions for you. Jac
Re: new to forum, having some issues Sorry, I can't give any advice here either as I've only ever been a one dog household and so dealing with two-dog issues is out of my experience. Have you done any clicker training with him? That might help you build some happy associations with him in his mind of being inside with you, rather than running away from you. For recall issues, there are lots of articles on the main site, and of course Pippa's book Total Recall is a great resource which contains all sorts of good information on how to build a great recall.
Re: new to forum, having some issues It sounds like you have been having a rough time, which is not good to hear. I'm sure it's been very difficult and that it is extremely distressing to see your beloved dog like this. I really think that it'd be a good idea to get the help of a qualified behaviourist. A good behaviourist will be able to watch Conker and the way he behaves around people, his family members, and other dogs, and will be able to give you specific advice about what is contributing to this. He is obviously very anxious and, from your description, it seems that there may not be many situations in which he can really relax. This is a situation that has been developing over some time, so unfortunately there is not going to be a quick solution - but I am sure that there is a solution. The solution will probably involve all of you changing something about the way you interact with Conker and it will probably involve some training to teach him to relax and that the world is not such a scary place. It might involve some medication as well (for his anxiety) and for that reason I would first approach your vet about this. I'd explain exactly what you have said here and ask for the vet's opinion but also insist on a recommendation to a good behaviourist who is very experienced in dealing with dog anxiety issues. What do you think of that idea?
Re: new to forum, having some issues Ah I can't help as Dexter is my first dog but I'm so sorry you are going through this.what an achievement to get up to the standard of silver good citizenship,you must have had a tremendous bond with Conker,all the more upsetting that this situation has evolved.you will get( have already had ;D) some great advice on here from some very experienced members,I hope you will find something that works and helps so Conker resumes normal service. Best wishes Angela x
Re: new to forum, having some issues Can't help with suggestions I'm afraid (Rachael's advice seems spot on - as always). But just wanted to say welcome, and sorry to hear you've had a rough time of it. I hope you get some help and things pick up. Best wishes to you from me and my boy Charlie.
Re: new to forum, having some issues I agree with Rachael a behaviourist would help you identify the underlying cause of Conker's anxiety and this would be the thing that worries me most too. My dog doesn't have great recall around other dogs but we keep working on it and there are lots of resources on the main site and forum to help you. Welcome to the forum, let us know how you get on with your lovely boy
Re: new to forum, having some issues hi, many thanks for the reply's. Firstly he's fine with other dogs most of the time, we have come across a couple who he barks at, heckles go up etc, but on the whole he's just very playful. But he's not happy with other dogs in his house but will play in the garden, once he's said his hello's he'll go and hide somewhere away from the other dog inside the house, but is quite happy to chase around the garden. We have a rotti next door, who is so quiet you wouldn't know he was there, he never barks, just sniff's at the fence, he goes mad barking and trying to get through fence, but i think is more because they are both intact, but the rotti is only about 5monhs old, so he's being alpha male, me think's. He is a real mummy dog, he has to be with me everywhere i go, he's not left on his own for hours, as when i go to work on my long day he goes to my mum's who has a dog, and is fine, but does wait for me to come home. He's been going to my parents since we had him, so this isn't a new thing. He's quite happy to go out with anyone who'll take him. Training classes were hard work, but as i have a disabled son we needed to have control and at least basic training from start. I think the behaviourist is a good idea, but wouldn't know where to find a good one. Most of time indoors he's fine, relax's if it's quiet.and just me, but when everyone is about and it's the school holiday's things more unsettled. The problem has become worse since we moved last July, the bungalow is smaller than our last one, but has a much bigger garden, so more space. At first a thought it was just settling into new home, but not changed, got worse. So think next step is vets and some professional advice. thanks you again for reply's mel
Re: new to forum, having some issues Yes talk to your vet and get a referal for a behaviourist - good luck!
Re: new to forum, having some issues Hello and welcome from me too . Poor lad , he really has had some issues to deal with hasnt he ? Even if he was afraid of your girl , he will still feel unsettled because the dynamics have changed in the home . I had a very similar situation to you , I took on a rescue terrier, she had been described as timid by the shelter, but the stark reality was that she was aggressive . My Lab boy Sam , now two and a half, was terrified of her and refused to be in the same room , she also showed aggression to people and so sadly we had to return her . Sam was immediately relieved, he is a sensitive soul , but it didnt stop him looking for her for some time, just because there was a change , he is now fine with a new friendly companion . Definately, as suggested, ask your Vet for a recommendation re a behaviourist to help your dear boy , good luck
Re: new to forum, having some issues Having read some of the other posts, a lot is said for reward training, I have tried this with a variety of lovely treats, indoor or our garden conked responds and does everything he's told and gets a lovely reward, but when were out he's just not interested in any treats at all, so this is an issue with trying to proof train what's been put in place at home or training classes. From what people have said he's not a typical lab, as not manic and bouncy not really food orientated and seems very calm, even my vet has commented on his behaviour as he's a chocolate lab, never had a chocolate lab before, so thought his behaviour was normal. As a family we bred and showed English setters for many years. Mel
Re: new to forum, having some issues have been doing some research and spoken to a friend of mine who has had lab's for years and used to shooting with her dad with them, so know a bit about them. She has suggested that Conkers lack of recall, is maybe his alpha male coming out, as he's not had them removed. It would make sense due to his age, and it would also make sense at home in the garden as he bark's at next doors rotti through the fence all the time, i think he might go through it before much longer, the rotti never barks back, but is also complete but only about 15months old. Some of his other behaviour when out would also lead me to think this might be the case. I didn't get him done when he was younger, because we had thought we might breed him, but have now changed our minds. So not sure to get him done now, or have we left it too late. Is it likely to make any difference as hormones already raging. Have gone back to basic training when out and found lots of ham for treats is working, only not seen many dogs recently when out, so difficult to know what will happen when we do. He seems very keen to return for a piece of ham, so we'll continue with this and hopefully make some progress. mel
Re: new to forum, having some issues Hi mel I've only had male labs and all have had recall issues although the two I have now are better but I've really worked at it. They still aren't great though. I have read in the shooting times a few years ago that this is a common thing with male labs. They like to go and investigate everything. It's less common with bitches who are usually more biddable but there are always exceptions. You are not too late to have him castrated. My old lab was castrated when he was 9 because he had an enlarged prostate. I think it takes about a month for the hormones to subside although I may have remembered that wrong. However castrating wont automatically make him come back when called and I'm not sure how much differance it would make to his recall problem apart from he won't have such an urge to scent mark or look for the ladies. Also I remember reading somewhere on the forum, I think Pippa may have posted it can't remember exactly, that castration can make a nervous dog worse as it takes away the testosterone so that may be something you should think about with his nervousness. That's one reason I've not had my two done they are both very nervous of strangers probably due to a bad experience at the vet when pups. I'm afraid in my experience his recall problems are very common and the only answer is training. :
Re: new to forum, having some issues Hi, many thanks for all your reply's. Quick update, I work at a land base college that does animal management upto degree level, have found out that 2 of the lecturers are also animal behaviour specialists and have there own business doing this, so I've spoken to the about the issues I'm having, they asked if I could take him into a behaviour studies lesson, which I did, good for students to get practical experience, but I also got a free assessment. Firstly, possibly something wrong with his eyes, get them checked as he didn't obviously see things. Secondly given some exercises to do, to try and de sensitise him from noises, starting quietly lots of different noises, then over a period of time getting louder, just making the noise everyday noises. Thirdly look into a thundershirt, never heard of these, but a coat that calms them down. So have a few things to look into, and have got to go back to him to let him know how things go. He also said that it looks like he has some level of separation anxiety from me, so need to try and make him more independent. Been working on the recall and walking to heel, gone back to basics, walking beside me and not dragging me up the road is getting better, still using a canny collar, but getting better, the recall when other dogs aren't about is great, he comes back 95% of the time first time! but still having huge problems when other dogs are about, he's completely deaf. Have been and bought a long training line as 3 days ago he got set about by a flat coat retriever, I had to break them ,this dog was on his back trying to bite his neck, he was off a lead out with a young girl not much older than 11/12 years, conker went down bum in the air, in play mode, she looked at me and then him, I told her, he was friendly and just wanted to say hello, she never said a word, then from nowhere this dog started attacking conker, even when I went to break it up, she just stood there, I had his canny collar and lead in my hand and moved my arm in his direction, making lots of noise with the collar and lead, he then ran off. I continued my walk and once we'd finishes this dog made a beeline for conker again, this time a peso and dog warden were walking across the park and stopped it from reaching conker, the young girl then put it on a lead and walked off. They asked me if he was alright I explained what had happened, so now until he does as I ask it's walks on a training lead, am also seriously looking at castrating him, in case it's the alpha male hormones. Fortunately he wasn't injured and just came away grumbling to himself.
Re: new to forum, having some issues That sounds really positive progress, well done. [quote author=smeimum link=topic=4594.msg66291#msg66291 date=1396721942] am also seriously looking at castrating him, in case it's the alpha male hormones. Fortunately he wasn't injured and just came away grumbling to himself. [/quote] It sounds like the other dog attacked your dog. Why do you think castrating your dog would help? Was the other dog castrated?
Re: new to forum, having some issues Hi Julie, Yes the other dog definitely attacked conker, he was in play mode tail wagging. I didn't get a chance to look to see if other dog is intact, so don't know. Recently every time we meet another intact male dog, he starts to puff himself up, growls deep in his chest and starts strutting around the other dog. We have an intact 18month old rotti next dog, this dog never barks just sniffs at the fence, he goes mad at the fence barking etc, so think it's alpha male, he's 3in a weeks time, so hormones flying about. I don't know if getting him castrated will help or not. We went out yesterday and bumped into a group of 6 dogs, the beagle was the only intact male, he made a beeline for it, growling hackles up, but tail was still wagging, not sure if this was because of the attack 2 days previously. Think maybe I need to get some advice, trouble is every time I go to the vets he asks about getting him done, so not sure I'll get a fair answer. Mel
Re: new to forum, having some issues If his tail is up in the air and wagging stiffly then it's not a happy wag. How does he behave if there isn't an intact male in the group? It's great that you can get some advice from the behavioural studies people
