Night time toilet issues with pen/puppy pads

Discussion in 'Labrador Puppies' started by Calbury, May 7, 2016.

  1. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    Nugget is 18 weeks. From the time we bought him home at 8 weeks he has used a pen/puppy pads at night.

    He is now clean during the day and 'asks' to go out for wees and poos.

    At night, he still uses his puppy pad and there is always wee and poo on it in the morning.

    I feel he does this because he is used to doing so. I'd like him to stop.

    Just wondering how others who started with a pen/puppy pads moved on.

    His crate is in the pen with him. During the day (when I go out, for example) he is in the crate with the door shut, never for more than 2 to 3 hours.

    Should I try shutting the crate door overnight? I don't want him to resort to doing anything inside the crate... but I also don't want him to bark in the crate in case it triggers more general barking in the crate.

    I also don't want to have to get up in the night. Is it reasonable to expect him to go all night in a locked crate at 18 weeks? He usually has his last wee/poo at about 11.30 and someone is up at 7.

    Alternatively, should I just try 'waiting it out' to see if the night time weeing/pooing stops?

    Thanks for your advice :)
     
  2. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Hi there,
    Dexter was 20 weeks when he came to us he was toilet trained almost 100% reliably and I didn't use puppy pads at all so can't give you a first hand method.At 20 weeks Dexter did his last wee at 9.30-10 and was locked in his crate,I got up to him at 5.30 and he was always fine.You could just wait it out but it might take longer, I think as you've done such a great job during the day you are ready to tackle the nights though .I think your nighttime toilet is late enough but I would get up a little earlier at first so basically go back a few steps really and then you can extend the time he's has to last until someone lets him out gradually .
    I don't think it's unreasonable for him to be locked in his crate all night..my dog was up until he was probably 8 months at least ....
    Good luck
     
  3. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    Inevef used puppy pads with Juno, just in her crate overnight with the door shut. She was totally reliable at 18 weeks and would go through from 11 -11:30ish to 7:00 to 7:30ish. As Angela says, you could try getting up a little earlier and try to catch him before he needs to go, just like a young puppy, and gradually move the time back again. Another alternative I've seen suggested is to reduce the size of the puppy pad over a period of nights until it is too small for him to use. Ultimately, although you do want to encourage him to cry in his pen, if he needs to toilet it's better for him to let you know as he does during the day.
    Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

    PS How's the biting? Or shouldn't I ask?
     
  4. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    I never used puppy pads and my puppy was dry and clean overning from the beginning. They like to keep their den clean, so make the area smaller and take the puppy pads away.
     
  5. PuppyJake

    PuppyJake Registered Users

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    Jake is crate trained, so no pads, and has been going all night from 11pm to 6.45am for three weeks now. We pushed back the night visit over a week by setting an alarm to get up to take him out to the garden as he was obviously fine with it, until we had pushed it back to an 7-8 hr gap.
    He cried and woke me up a few weeks ago so I got up and took him out and he shot down the garden to do a large, rather soft poo so obviously needed to go and wouldn't have been able to hold it.
    No idea about how to wean off the use of the pads, but his bladder should be able to hold it over night I would say.
     
  6. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    Thanks so much for your comments. I may give it 2 more weeks to see if things naturally resolve themselves and if not, I'll attempt closing the crate door!
    And @MaccieD - biting is still very much an issue I'm afraid :( He decided to launch another park attack which left me with blood running down my arm! In the park it's impossible to deal with so his walks will be much closer to home until the biting (hopefully!) subsides. Thank you for asking :)
     
  7. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    @Calbury really sorry to hear that :( Are the attacks less frequent than they were? Do they happen at any specific times? Sorry for the questions , just wondering if there is a trigger to the biting
     
  8. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    Have you tried giving him a cuddly toy (bought cheaply from Charity shop) to hold instead of your arm? If he won't hold it and is still intent on launching his puppy attack, just toss it slightly, it may well divert him.
     
  9. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    I don't think there is any way to teach a puppy to not pee/poop in the house overnight if you let him pee/poop in the house overnight. He needs to be taken outside. Crates don't train puppies, YOU train the puppy. My boy needed out twice a night (-30C and LOTs of snow) at first, then once a night. By Nugget's age he no longer needed out, the outing had gotten later and later till it was early morning and we were getting up anyway. He was 4.5 months old till he stopped needing out at night. I really think you need to bite the bullet and give up some sleep.

    We had the same set up you do. Crate with door open inside bigger pen. Same thing with first puppy who came to us at 7 weeks old and was clean overnight from the get go. They are all different.

    However, since you have trained him to pee/poop inside at night by allowing him to and providing the area for him I do wonder if simply removing the area, the pad, at this stage might work. Good luck.
     
  10. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    My pups have a pen at night and naturally stop using the pads once their bladders are mature. I stop putting pads down at 13ish weeks. I've never had any problems with peeing or pooing indoors once they start being completely clean and dry overnight (15 weeks ish). They don't have water from 9pm, I pick it up till morning from 13 weeks onwards.

    It works for us- I have a pup every year and I'm too old to lose that much sleep lol!


    :)
    .
     
  11. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    Thank you.

    @Boogie - had the puppies already stopped peeing/pooing indoors before you stopped putting down the pads at 13 weeks, or was the removal of the pads the trigger that stopped them?

    Nugget is rather older at 18 weeks so I'm realizing I should have got a grip on this sooner!
     
  12. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    The pads are removed once they start ripping them to shreds lol!

    But that time (13 weeks ish) also coincides when they begin to last all night. I just mop up after that (with Simple Solution) until they are dry completely.

    I think Twig was 16 weeks when she had the final night time accident. But they had become few and far between by then. They all become dry eventually, I prefer sleep! Lol :)

    .
     
  13. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    I prefer asleep too (I have young children - need all the sleep I can get lol). I'm going to start off by reducing the size of the pad over the next few days, then taking it away altogether. Thank you :)
     
  14. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    No rhyme or reason to the biting, unfortunately. It's still fairly frequent too. Yesterday was horrible - my 12 year old daughter was exercising him on the grass near our house and he suddenly went for her, jumped up and bit her ribs. Her clothes were torn and she was bleeding :( Other people were looking on in horror! It makes me afraid to take him out, to be honest, and he's not allowed off the lead now near anyone else until this is over. I'm too afraid he'll bite someone else's child.
     
  15. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    @Calbury I'm so sorry to hear that the biting isn't improving and you and the children have been working so hard to control it. Totally understand your concerns around the off lead aspect, and he's probably getting frustrated nit being allows the off lead time - it can get to be a vicious circle. I'm just wondering whether it's worth a consultation with a behaviourist who may be able to offer help and insight into bringing the biting to an end. It's not something I would normally consider for a puppy of Nugget's age but the worry it is causing you isn't good and those concerns can affect your relationship with Nugget. How is your daughter today? xx
     
  16. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    She's OK, thank you, she loves Nugget and has been good about the biting from the start. I feel worse about it than she does I think.

    To add insult to injury, he bit me just now, so I put him in the only room I have where I can completely close the doors and block his view of everyone, for a short 'time out'.

    So he did a great, big poo right in the middle of the carpet. It wasn't soft (so he could have held it) and it's something he hasn't done in a while. I'd taken him outside only minutes before. :(

    I will give him another week then yes, I think I will seek help. All of this is having an affect on the family's relationship with him, which is so sad. My seven year old whispered to me last night "Mummy, I'm scared of him." I've been telling them for so many weeks that this is a stage puppies go through, but recently it's been worse than ever so I'm not sure they believe me.

    I read up on Labrador pups before buying him and we were all aware of the biting issues, but had I known it could be as bad as this, I'm afraid I wouldn't have bought one with children in the house. Sad but true. :(
     
  17. samandmole

    samandmole Registered Users

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    I really feel for you with this as we had a terrible biter as I said and it did peak around the same age. My hands were shredded. Have you tried rawhide strips - the Orozyme ones you can get on Amazon? My Mole just really really needed to be chewing all the time for a few weeks at this age and I needed to give him things to chew rather than me. These helped massively to keep him chewing and calm when children were around or I needed a break from his biting. I really hope this phase passes quickly for you. I'm sure with Mole it was teething as now he has his big old pearly whites in he is gentle as anything (although still lives his chews!)
    Sam and Mole xx
     
  18. Calbury

    Calbury Registered Users

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    Thank you - I have given him pig's ears, which he loves and which keep him busy... but he tends to wolf them down when they are still too big. He does the same with everything - I gave him a frozen banana the other day and I don't believe it even touched the sides! I do think you are right and chewing is what he needs to do, but I'm scared of him getting a blockage of some sort. (He's had softer stuff too, like jerky and tripe sticks, but those last mere seconds. Such a dilemma!
     
  19. MaccieD

    MaccieD Guest

    That is so sad :(, and he's been so brave dealing with the bitey monster. Having read up abut the biting makes you aware but sometimes the unrelenting biting isn't what you expected. Does he meet any older dogs at all? If he does, how is Nugget with them? Does he play bite them a lot. Its when times are hard like this that many of us wish we lived closer and able to give more than advice over the internet :( Just a thought for alternative things to chew, have you tried a nice fresh bone from the butchers? A nice fresh rib may take his mind off biting and wear him out. Or perhaps a Whimzee from PAH, not cheap but the large size has Juno occupied for around 20 minutes. You could also try frozen carrot. Or perhaps some kibble frozen into ice cubes to keep him busy. You could even use ice lolly moulds to make them bigger to last for longer. There are also SmartBones from PAH, again not the cheapest of options but the large size again last Juno around 20 minutes or so and I'm trying to think of possibilities to keep those teeth busy, and away from you, for a short while and hopefully tire Nugget out at the same time .
     
  20. QuinnM15

    QuinnM15 Registered Users

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    We found beef tendons/pizzle worked well to keep her occupied...they are high in calories so watch that his tummy is OK (before 5 months, took it away after 20ish mins so she didn't chew the entire thing and saved it for another time because she would upset tummy). If he swallows things, make sure you take it away when it wears down too short as well. I'm not sure where you live, but I also found a chew at Petsmart that mimics a the look and taste of a real stick, and isn't super hard, and it is the only chew toy that she doesn't get bored of quickly.
     

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