Welcome to you and Barney! He's a very handsome boy and I'll look forward to hear more about him and how you are working with him. I had the pleasure of being allowed to dogsit for a pair of working cocker girls several times last year - my first and only experience with spaniels. After a few trips to the beach on lead, their owner convinced me that I should trust them (and trust him) and let them off lead for our walks. What an experience - as soon as I unhooked their leads they were both off like a shot so fast that in what seemed like seconds they looked like tiny brown dots in the distance! I've only had dogs that have stuck to me like glue, so it was real panic time. But their owner said the girls would come if I called them. Even though I didn't think they could even hear me, I called them and...they came back like two little furry boomerangs. Wow, was I impressed! So different from the dogs I've known but such a load of fun, those two. All to explain I'll be happy to hear about your and Barney's adventures!
Hi and welcome from me and 3 year old girl, Harley. We do agility with several cokers and they have proved to be very good at it.
I would definitely stick with the gundog training classes even though it might be difficult for your pup to concentrate in the presence of all the other dogs. It will get better with practice! The classes usually concentrate on retrieving training, something very important for young spaniels. They are natural hunters and quite often the retrieving side needs a bit more nurturing or you will run into problems quickly where the dog will only want to hunt and only retrieve reluctantly. By far the hardest part to understand for anyone new to spaniels is the fact that taking your dog for a walk, taking the lead off and allowing it to free run can cause problems within a very, very short time that sometimes can be irreversible. You mention that you would like to go beating with your dog sometime in the future. A good beating dog hunts very flat in front of the handler from side to side. It has to have a good turn whistle, stop whistle, and 100% recall. It also has to be steady to game, walk to heel on and off the lead, and have a solid sit/stay. I also like my beating dogs to have good retrieving skills. It helps enormously during the closed season to keep them exercised and mentally stimulated. Gundog training classes will teach you what is required to train with your pup at home. Maybe you have had a chance to read the article on spaniels and why not to walk them. I think snowbunny has posted a link. My five spaniels are all adult dogs, quite well trained, but I very, very rarely take them for a walk where I just take the leads off and let them run, the exception to that is runs on the beach. It would be counterproductive to everything I train for.
Thanks Heidrun. To qualify a little, he doesn't get complete free run when I walk him. He is only off lead where there are no dogs, livestock etc. Until recently the recall worked and if he got too far ahead I would call him back. On a few occasions if he didn't I managed to get hold of him and get him back on the slip lead. On days where he was pushing it I would keep him on an extendible lead and always did this if there were more distractions about. Every walk involved some aspect of training, especially recall and the stop while was developing nicely. I had started on his retrieving and it went very well in the house or garden, less well in the paddock and no chance at all in an open field with gamey smells so I know there is a huge amount of work there. The gundog class seems to have made his obedience much worse. Not the trainers fault at all, it, just that most of the other dogs are more advanced and the focus is on retrieving exercises which seem way beyond him at the moment. The problem is he has ignored the stay and recall so many times during the class because he is so excited by the presence of other dogs that his general obedience is now much worse. I have been 4 times and he has progressively got worse on each one. This has now carried on into his obedience outside the classes. I worry that if I keep going, any remaining control I have over him will be lost completely. We have both come to dread the class which can't be a good thing. I will definitely revisit gundog classes, but really feel I need to revisit the basics, socialise him more with other dogs before I go back. Does that make sense?
As a matter of interest, Dave, what is Barney's breeding? Are his parents working dogs, or maybe trialling dogs?
Nothing fancy, and I confess to not knowing much about the various lines. His parents both work. There is a FTCh in there somewhere, a grandparent I think. His dad is owned by a friend of mine who shoots, beats and picks up with him. I knew him to be a very good natured dog who worked well. I met the bitches owners, friends of my friend who also worked her. Neither are breeders.
A lot of spaniels hunt on the lead. The nose is glued to the ground and they dart about as much as the lead allows them to. An extendable lead just gives them a bit more length to cover a bit more ground. That is still a form of hunting. As I don't walk my dogs in the tradional sense I structure their activities when out and about like this. I will drive somewhere and find a quiet spot, no distractions and for very young dogs no chance of accidentally encountering pheasants or rabbits. Sometimes that means walking through the area myself or quartering an older dog through the patch to make sure there is no bunny lurking in any tufts of grass. You don't need a vast area for a young pup, something the size of a tennis court is ample. There I will do a little bit of retrieving training, some general obedience and a little bit of quartering. And that's it! I'll put the dog back in the car and get another dog out or go back home. As I said before, the hardest bit for anyone new to a spaniel is to get their head around the fact that "the walk" is not a good idea. I have seen so many people who have caused themselves endless problems by taking their young spaniels for walks.
Thanks Heidrun. Food for thought, I will read the article. It does sound very challenging though as he has such a huge amount of energy it will be a job to manage it if I can't walk with him! He will be our only dog, for a few years at least. On the upside, I have taken early retirement so I have lots of time to devote to this. The other thing I should mention, is that he is also a family pet and won't be working exclusively. He lives in the house and is not kennelled. I am also a keen hillwalker and mountain biker and would like to take him with me. I would love to shoot and beat with him if I can, but if forced to choose he would be a family pet first and foremost. Perhaps in hindsight a Cocker wasn't the ideal choice for all this, but we have really bonded and I am going to try my very best to make it work!
All of mine are also pets and live in the house. It is just for four months of the year that they are hard working gundogs. The other eight months I spend training and preparing for the next shooting season. Hill walking with a spaniel is a great way to enjoy the outdoors but you will need the same attributes from your walking companion as you would from a shooting companion. A tendency to stick close, reliable recall, turn whistle and stop whistle and steadiness to game that you will no doubt encounter on walks, hares in particular. And of course it goes without saying no chasing of live stock.
Hi Dave, I also have a very lively young working cocker (mine is about 11 months now) and have had the same challenges as you. I also had similar hopes for my dog: I wanted a beating dog, and more generally wanted to do gundog work to keep her brain busy, but I primarily wanted a pet. The articles about spaniels on this site are very useful – though a bit frightening! I followed Heidrun’s advice above to keep the dog close, to keep them busy on walks, and to work very hard on recall. At 6 months my dog was still quite wild, so I was working hard on Total Recall and letting her off-lead only in controlled environments (fenced fields). I tried to keep her focused on me when she was off-lead – I used the about turn a lot, kept changing direction, threw toys for her, ran around to get her to chase me etc. I also rewarded her heavily for checking in, and still do. Now she’s a bit older and more reliable/responsive to a whistle command, I have been walking her off-lead in more interesting environments: forests, country walks. This has been quite a recent development though. I’m still very cautious where I take her and when I let her off, but I have found that walking with another dog helps enormously. Obviously be very very very careful about the company you choose here! I walk with a friend who has a very reliable off-lead dog (not a spaniel!) and he anchors Jess very effectively. They are great friends and mosey around and play together but stay pretty close to us. This is how I have managed to introduce more exciting country walks, where otherwise Jess may just be too tempted by the urge to explore. It’s also helping to proof her recall in more distracting environments. Another thing that helped me - psychologically at least! - was to decide on my priorities. If Jess is never a beating dog, it's not important to me. I'm fortunate that she is a pet and I don't need her to work. All I really want is a reliably obedient dog that can be safely off-lead. That means her essential training is: recall, staying close to me, not chasing livestock. Those goals are consistent with having a working gundog but that's no longer my priority, if that makes sense. Her retrieving is terrible and I've not worked on quartering patterns at all. She doesn't want to go into brambles or thick cover, and I don't care. We might get round to those one day, but I found it much easier to get rid of my expectations of training a working gundog and just focus on the fundamentals that really are important. [ps - just editing this to add - this last bit might be terrible advice, but it worked for me!]
Ah, blackandwhitedog, I was wondering how you were getting on with your little cocker. Great to hear that you are making good progress.
Oh - also - on the training classes point. I also found group classes unhelpful. Jess would just get completely worked up and I felt that it was actively unhelpful for building her attention and focus. I decided to trust my instincts and stop taking her. But I did look for a better class, eventually finding one with fewer dogs and a more understanding instructor who encouraged us to stay at a manageable distance from the other dogs and do simpler tasks to build her focus. I also found outdoor classes much better than indoor. So, I completely understand the feeling that the classes are counterproductive but maybe it's just that particular training class and not training-in-general?
Hi Heidrun! Yes, my little dog is doing well. Still got bags of energy, and still obsessed with other dogs, but a really switched-on little dog and very eager to please. I'm cautiously emerging out of what has felt like quite full-on training to recognise that she is turning into a lovely little dog. Hopefully I'm not counting any chickens there, I know there's still a long way to go!
Where are you, @Some Bloke ? A novice dog shouldn't be put in a group class with other dogs who are far more advanced; they should have classes for different levels. It can be worth travelling for an occasional class ( I travel from Andorra to the Midlands in the UK for mine! ) and one-to-one classes will give you a lot of information and techniques to work on, too. Then, once you have a bit more confidence in your techniques (both you and your dog), you can try joining a group class again.
Thank you, that is a very reassuring post. If Barney is where Jess is now at the 11 month point I will be content. I too I am reassessing my priorities. It would be fantastic if I could train him as a gundog, but a good companion who stops, sits and recalls when asked is my main goal. He is already quite good with livestock as we are surrounded by by sheep and he sees them every day so is desensitised to them, though I would not yet trust him 100% in that regard, especially mast lambing approaches! I will definitely take on board the advice about keeping him close and only taking him on very structured walks where I train and keep him close. Unfortunately I don't know anyone else with a suitable dog to go out with.
Thanks. I am in South Shropshire. I am booked on a novice/ puppy gundog training day in June with a Gundog trainer trainer called Andy Cullen. Hopefully I will have made more progress with the basics by then. I am also booked on a basic puppy/obedience course very soon which I hope will help.
As @snowbunny does with her dogs, how about a few 'one to one' gundog training lessons, then you will know what you are aiming for and will have some good suggestions.
