Re: nuetering.... That's an interesting piece of research, JulieT! I don't know why it'd be different here in Aust.... There is a high rate of dog ownership here, but also plenty of dogs in shelters. In response to that, welfare organisations and vets really push the 'don't bring unwanted puppies into the world, do the right thing and neuter your dog' angle. Other than that, it is cheaper to register (register with the council, not register as a purebred) dogs that are neutered. But an awful lot of dogs are not registered. Just in relation to not neutering Ziggy - totally agree that an outstanding, physically and mentally sound example of a rare breed should (even must) be kept entire and bred from. Fortunately, Labradors are not in danger of extinction.
Re: nuetering.... Yes, culture and historical reasons - odd law in Sweden that actually prevented neutering until the late 1980s (why?!) so that might have a massive impact on attitudes. I'm busy reading English dog forums from Switzerland at the mo (why didn't I study more languages at school!). Angela - massive amount of sympathy, finding it tricky too. The only thing I conclude so far is that I need not rush to a decision, there is plenty of time.
Re: nuetering.... There are some good articles of neutering on the main site with lots of links, have a look. We spay our bitches after at least one season, we find it affects the behaviour of other dogs if it's done too early - still smell like puppies? Not sure but they're certainly greeted differently. We only had one boy (wolfhound not lab) and he was left intact because studies suggest that castration significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma which is a high risk in hounds. We really weren't sure so I read in depth which suggests that for bitches even though it's a bigger procedure the benefits outweigh the risks, consensus seems to be an additional 18month lifespan for a spayed bitch in comparison with unswayed; whereas for dogs, unless you have behavioural issues, there is no additional benefit to castration and for some breeds there is an increase in prevalence of certain diseases. However, I was reading up specifically with wolfies in mind, studies may vary for labs. So I would say yes to spay (no earlier than 18months and after at least one season) but no to castration unless there was a behavioural reason. It's a very complicated and quite personal decision, don't feel pressured to decide one way or the other, take your time until you're certain, because there's no going back! Kerryn
Re: nuetering.... [quote author=Moorlands link=topic=1881.msg15455#msg15455 date=1372968907] It's a very complicated and quite personal decision, don't feel pressured to decide one way or the other, take your time until you're certain, because there's no going back! [/quote] Thanks so much - I think that's excellent advice! And makes me feel better to hear that I'm not wasting my life researching this...it's a long job!
Re: nuetering.... I kept my last dog (Cocker Spaniel) as we wanted to show him and potentially breed if he did well enough in the show ring. He was a real poppet and never had an issue with aggression. He had posessive tendencies with me and would give a little grr if certain dogs approached me but i think this was just him and nothing to do with his man bits. He was never mated so his personality remained unchanged but during the neighbours dogs seasons he would stop eating and howl through the night. Luckily we lived out in the country so no one else had to endure this racket haha. If i had another male and had no intention of showing or breeding i would have them castrated. I think there are more pro's to having them done than con's for the average pet owner.
Re: nuetering.... Thanks Lisa, really value your views - it helps a great deal to hear what other people think about their dogs, particularly since I suspect that it's just a case of read and listen to everything, then make up my mind.
Re: nuetering.... It is a very personal decision and as long as your decision is justified sensibly. My friend has a Golden Retriever pup and when i mentioned having Goldie spayed replied "were not having him done, were going to use him as a stad dog to make back some of the money weve spent on him". I couldnt really hold my tongue :-X
Re: nuetering.... Oh dear , thats a shocking remark , letting him sire just to re coup the cost , well done for being dignified Lisa
Re: nuetering.... So... We've decided (for now anyway)... Not. Our reasons: not convinced that the health benefits are proven, feel we can be responsible owners by training and adequate fencing, and, if I'm really honest, we're influenced by our original bias of unless overwhelming evidence otherwise, "just let him be". We're open to changing our minds if evidence or circumstances change! I need to say a big thanks to everyone who gave their views and shared experiences - it was a big help. And many wise words and advice, so thank you. A very personal and difficult decision for us, and you made it easier - many thanks.
Re: nuetering.... Oh Dear..... I was going to start a different thread but it ties into this one and the discussion Julie started..... Got a real fright in the park tonight.Have really felt good with Dexter and our Heel work progress and tightening up his focus on me the last couple of days.Off we set for the little socialisation walk we do at 6 pm .....everything going fine,Dexter walking lovely on his halti,didn't let him off as there were a few non dog owners walking about.Heading back.....we saw a beagle that he knows,an old girl,he was a bit different with her to how he normally was.....really sniffing her back end...she didn't really bother but could I get him away.......nothing,food,jumping,star jumps,stupid voice .in the end I made him sit and let her go on her way,but he was on high alert,tensed up,ready to go after her.then another dog walker rounds the corner with another beagle ,Dexter starts whining and twisting on his halti,scaring me really in case he hurt himself .I was down on my knees next to him making soothing noises and trying to calm him down. I couldn't move him away to put distance between us,i just couldn't move him full stop,he only wanted to go one way.....a massive lunge at this beagle.So as the lady got nearer I said,hi,we are friendly ,I just don't know what's got into him so ill try and keep him here as you go by.She lets the beagle come right up to Dex and then I realized what was going on...she was in season!Oh god,I yell 'keep her away he's an intact boy so she moves the beagle away and I'm not kidding or exaggerating when I say Dexter dragged me on my knees like a water skier about 10 meters .....I couldn't get a grip into the grass to stop us......it was the other dogs owners legs that stopped us.( I've repeated this story to my friend in the gym tonight and he was nearly crying laughing .......and I can see how it would look hilarious if the consequences couldn't have been so dire) This has really shaken me up,call it naivety,lack of experience ,owning a dog for the first time but I never realized how strong the urge would be , I'm x 2 his body weight and he pulled me like a sled! Not only this,I've been out this eve til 8pm,.Chris said he has been really restless,wanting to go out lots of times tonight for no reason and lo and behold as I'm writing this,Chris has let him out and he's over the wall onto the golf course like a crazy dog.....no recall whatsoever,Chris got lucky when he stopped to mark,he grabbed him...... Serious reconsideration about the castration issue if this is the taste of what's to come.I just cannot get over his strength,and you all know how pulled along by him I've been.Its knocked my confidence about having him off the lead in the neighbourhood( it was fragile at best)it's not safe or responsible...... Got some serious thinking to be done......
Re: nuetering.... That must have been a fright and a half! Much thinking indeed one of the reasons we haven't neutered is that Riley has met in season dogs and shown very little interest and in general we've seen very little testosterone driven behaviour. If that changed at any time we too would be strongly considering neutering. All the best with your decision
Re: nuetering.... Oh Angela I hope you are OK after your experience. I guess Dexter is only doing what comes naturally, but never the less frightening to be dragged along like that. I remember when Hattie had her first season I was really careful about her off lead exercise then one day 2 male Labs appeared and further on a male Collie, but I managed to chase them off. Just think carefully about what you want to do and don't rush into anything. Helen xx
Re: nuetering.... Angela, how awful for you...I don't know whether this is something that can't be corrected because of Dexter's make up, or could be overcome by training. It'd need someone more experienced than I am to say. But poor you, horrible, just as things were going so well. Pick yourself up though, remember the success you've worked so hard for and were seeing just this morning.
Re: nuetering.... Gosh Angela! Thats sounds a pretty awful experience for you and David. At least with a bitch, its only a couple of times a year, but with a boy, I guess you can't necessarily predict when there is a girl in season around. I think you have made a pretty persuasive argument myself :-\ jac
Re: nuetering.... Hi, Ive read all the posts , and have to make my own decision about castrating Otis. The PDSA who I use want me to get it done at six months, in three months time. What are peoples opinions about the timing of this? Is earlier better? I hate the idea of this op, but feel its somehow the right thing to do. Maggiex
Re: nuetering.... What a fright - you poor thing. I'm thinking along the same lines as Jac: [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=1881.msg16772#msg16772 date=1373835013] I think you have made a pretty persuasive argument myself :-\ [/quote]
Re: nuetering.... Hi Maggie - I think you need to research timing, and make up your mind about that. I was persuaded by a study I read that there was no impact on improvement in behaviour by having the op early or later, and potentially some downsides in development in going early. I had to weigh that against the vet's advice and the fact that the op might be easier if done earlier. For me, I'm waiting and seeing how things go, risking a more difficult op later if necessary (eg Angela's experience turns out to be something that is difficult to stop otherwise). But I think you need to read everything, listen to loads of different views, and then make your own mind up (sorry, I know you know that, but it's important that I don't impose my view, since it's such a hard decision - at least I found it so...).
Re: nuetering.... Oh dear, that would have been awful!! Glad that your hubby was able to catch the scamp! Really, for me, the decision to neuter was not a tough one. Possibly because here in Canada it is very much the done thing, so I hadn't really been exposed to the negative arguments. I have also had two male dogs before, both of whom I had neutered, with no ill effect that I could see. But finally, the main reason I had Simba neutered was to avoid just that situation as you have described here. I do not want to have to deal with a dog who is going to be attracted to the bitches in the neighbourhood who are in season. As you know, Simba needs a lot of training already, I didn't want to have to add extreme hormones to the mix. Everyone has to make this decision according to what they feel is best for both them and their dogs. And once the decision is made, not to feel guilty or worried about it. Hoping all the best for you as you revisit this decision, Angela. I hope you're able to think clearly about it all!!
Re: nuetering.... oh my life..angela i am sure it must have scared you half to death ....well some will know my mind was fully made up to have jasper neutered was booked in for the 26th,..........after a lot of research we have decided to leave it to a later date if and when we find its the right time .....oh feel a fool as i was adamant he was having it done.......will leave him intact for now, let my baby grow up first
