Re: Obi spaniels training log I'll start a new thread on the pet/working dog questions...I think it's interesting. I'll kick it off anyway.
Re: Obi spaniels training log Obi has mostly been doing more of the same, trying to get him working ground within a certain distance of me. The ears definitely switch off sometimes when the nose takes over but he usually gets into his rhythm once he's had a bit of a hoon. I'm focusing on keeping the hoon close by and for less and less time. I'm also working on some control things like sitting while his lead comes off and not haring off when it's halfway off : We're also doing some hand targeting, he seems to really enjoy clicker work (probably because there's food involved!). Here's his video: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153654068623289&l=4483087813725388353 I'm asking him to touch my hand twice now for a more definite touch rather than just running round bumping into it ;D I want to start doing some proper retrieving with him next but will need to be careful where I do it as he still likes to run round me a bit. We're doing some placeboard sits in the hopes this will get him used to parking up in front of me but a corridor may be needed or at least a fence or hedge behind me. Here are some recent photos of him that Heidrun took last week
Re: Obi spaniels training log You are doing all the right things, Barbara. It was lovely to see him the other day. He keeps nice and close and is very attentive to you with lovely eye contact. Great to watch. He is going to be a star.
Re: Obi spaniels training log Stunning photographs ;D I went on a gundog course years ago down near Weymouth and there were a couple of good Clumbers there. It was interesting watching them work, they look slow but aren't, they cover a fair amount of ground quite quickly. Do they work the same as Springers and Cockers or can you allow them a wee bit further out on their cast?
Re: Obi spaniels training log Stacia, they have to work in range just as cockers and springers. Their noses are better than those of other spaniel breeds in my mind and since their hunting style is less frenetic they very rarely miss game. They are definitely not slow, in fact on the straight in full flight they are very hard to beat. ;D
Re: Obi spaniels training log [quote author=heidrun link=topic=9805.msg145519#msg145519 date=1424788530] They are definitely not slow, in fact on the straight in full flight they are very hard to beat. ;D [/quote] I wonder if their (relatively) longer backs give them a long stride which is why they're deceptive. It certainly looks like it (says she picturing Bliss running, the fastest Clumber in the West!)
Re: Obi spaniels training log I often think Cockers and Springers just run round for the hell of it rather than hunting ;D So can understand a Clumber not outrunning its nose.
Re: Obi spaniels training log So good to catch up on Obi's training. I'm quite interested in the hand target for heel work - although haven't done it myself. In the vids I've seen it does seem to result in quite a formal "stuck to your leg" style, which I don't think I really want. The dogs don't seem that comfortable, and I can't see them keeping it up for long. But do you think that's just a transition to something else? I met a gundog on Sunday who could only walk in that style, the handler didn't have a loose lead alternative and I thought it looked exhausting for the dog. Just trying to puzzle this out in my own training. I have loose lead (but don't pull) and a tighter, but really not all that tight "close" cue, which I'm worried won't be good enough if I want to do the gundog grades, but can't see a use for anything tighter. So wonder what people do in practice...
Re: Obi spaniels training log I do find that dogs in obedience walk very close with their heads turned up towards the handler and I think that looks uncomfortable. I know the person who provided the vids you are talking about and see her dogs at training classes and the dogs always look very happy and relaxed in that heel position. I don't think anyone keeps their dogs strictly to heel all the time apart from when they are working; you need close heel walking in a 'walk up' in retriever work. Dogs can be taught to keep to heel in the close position and in the loose lead position for 'just a walk'.
Re: Obi spaniels training log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9805.msg145678#msg145678 date=1424854663] So good to catch up on Obi's training. I'm quite interested in the hand target for heel work - although haven't done it myself. In the vids I've seen it does seem to result in quite a formal "stuck to your leg" style, which I don't think I really want. The dogs don't seem that comfortable, and I can't see them keeping it up for long. But do you think that's just a transition to something else? I met a gundog on Sunday who could only walk in that style, the handler didn't have a loose lead alternative and I thought it looked exhausting for the dog. Just trying to puzzle this out in my own training. I have loose lead (but don't pull) and a tighter, but really not all that tight "close" cue, which I'm worried won't be good enough if I want to do the gundog grades, but can't see a use for anything tighter. So wonder what people do in practice... [/quote] I think it depends very much on what people do with their dogs. Retriever people who do working tests and field trials will train for quite a close heel position but not the type you see in obedience competitions where the dog's neck and head is turned upwards continuously. Spaniel field triallers on the other hand have a much more relaxed attitude to heel walking. It is not tested in a spaniel working test or field trial but there are occasions where the dog has to walk to heel off lead for short distances. A working gundog of whatever breed has to be able to walk to heel off lead for quite considerable distances, but once again this is usually a much more relaxed position than the obedience style heel walk.
Re: Obi spaniels training log From what I've seen the ideal for a retriever (particularly for competition) is a fairly tight heel position but looking forward and it's this forward looking that gives a loose neck and relaxed walk. Different people like different things....the competition folk seem to want very close work and discuss that. depending on the judge, your dog may get penalised for going the other way round a barrier (like a plant) than you. My friend that rough shoots with his dog doesn't want a close heel but wants a dog that is very aware of him and reorients itself on him at all times. Mainly because he's carrying a shotgun and doesn't want to trip over his dog! I think the hand touch is also useful for repositioning your dog without touching it or talking to it a lot. It's an aid to quiet handling. Spaniels seem to be allowed a bit more leeway and a looser heel is ok. Not because they can't do it I don't think but by their nature they work away from you more and generally spend less time at heel. The importance of the different elements are weighted differently in competition between spaniels and retrievers, the hunting and game finding (before shot) being of great importance to the spaniels which obviously the retrievers don't do.
Re: Obi spaniels training log Hmmm...interesting. I can position and reposition Charilie with my hand, and I don't even have to have my hand close to him anymore. If I want him to move to sit somewhere else, he'll follow the movement of my hand without it even being close to him. Maybe I'm missing a trick here with heel, I just haven't used my hand target in that way. Will have a play later...
Re: Obi spaniels training log I don't know the trainer well, only through FB, but it seems to me she over trains and has a dog looking at her hand almost obedience style and then allows that tightness to slip until she's got the behaviour she wants which is that position relative to her leg but relaxed looking forward for the birds. I think it would be hard for the handler to maintain that fixed position with hand on hip over rough ground and long durations too and so you get to the right level of detail for the job in hand(so to speak) which for her is being very successful in trials ;D She also said that all her dogs would need work on their basics after the shooting season when I said I needed to improve Rileys heelwork after only a few days shooting had meant it had slipped horribly. So I guess this method gives you a tuning tool for that maintenance we were talking about in Charlie's log.
Re: Obi spaniels training log Oh Barbara Obi is absolutely stunning and I love his left ear!! Great photo's Heidrun xx
Re: Obi spaniels training log Thank you Helen. He does have beautiful markings in my obviously unbiased opinion ;D
Re: Obi spaniels training log Charlie's heelwork would take no pressure at all in a shooting environment, it would crumble immediately. I can't even manage to walk down a field with a single spaniel flushing pheasants and keep Charlie on a loose lead! Much work to do... [quote author=bbrown link=topic=9805.msg145739#msg145739 date=1424869968] He does have beautiful markings in my obviously unbiased opinion ;D [/quote] They are lovely. He seems to have much stronger markings than a lot of clumbers (I only know 2 in real life though).
Re: Obi spaniels training log Well Riley wouldn't get two steps on the common without blowing his mind at all the dogs ;D Obi is orange and white so his markings are darker than some(lemon and white) and he has more markings than quite a few dogs too, it seems to be personal taste as to whether people prefer heavily marked dog or mostly white. All the pictures of show dogs I've seen seem to be fewer markings rather than more.
Re: Obi spaniels training log [quote author=bbrown link=topic=9805.msg145779#msg145779 date=1424875544] Well Riley wouldn't get two steps on the common without blowing his mind at all the dogs ;D [/quote] That's an interesting point. Whenever I sigh over Charlie's antics at training and moan "but he can cope with much more exciting things on Wimbledon Common than that...", the trainer says "that's because Wimbledon Common is his day job". She means that something a dog is expected to do day in, day out, they get very good at....I do think that might be one of our limitations (for a dog of Charlie's personality, anyway). A lack of opportunity to get good at something if you don't do it much. We go to gundog training just twice a month, so it still seems new and very, very exciting to Charlie.
Re: Obi spaniels training log Obi is soooo gorgeous! Don't have anything useful to add on the training bits but just popping in to say thanks for the pics and vid.
