Oh no. First Puppy class was awful. (Very very long)

Discussion in 'Labrador Puppies' started by Leanne82, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    I cannot describe how much I disliked the trainer. She was just horrible. All the phone calls were so positive. I specifically said I only wanted positive training techniques.

    We got there and there are 14 dogs, bigger than I was anticipating but ok. She then inteoduces her ‘extremely well trained’ dog who proceeded to charge at all the puppies leaving a couple squeaking in fright.

    Then she tells us how to do a down. We have to hold a treat and push the dogs back down. So I refused to do it (I didn’t cause a fuss I just did a verbal cue instead) I explained why when she asked and said that Mas is able to do it without any contact. Mark 1 for me it appeared.

    We then moved onto down stay (bloody quick considering the majority didn’t even have a down yet) we had to do for 20 seconds. Mas did 40 - she TOTALLY ignored us. Then pushed a little dashand down and it yelped. The owner asked her not to and she said ‘I do know dogs!’

    Then it was time to learn ‘paw’ so I took her to one side and said I didn’t want to teach that as Mas is in a school and I don’t want it to become an offered behaviour and said could we just practise the other stuff whilst the rest did. She then did this dramatic I’ve taught hundreds of dogs and it will be a behaviour he does on command so won’t be offered. (Crap!)

    She then made us swap dogs and teach it to another dog (I swear she did this on purpose) so she swapped me with another puppy and went ‘oh Maslow isn’t allowed to do this so just hold him’ to this complete stranger! Who held Maslow who went BALISTIC, I’ve never seen him behave like that - he was trying to back out of his collar and howling to get to me.

    THEN we had to do a ‘forced down’ where you sit the dog next to you and push them down to the floor. This is apparently for the vets when the dog won’t do it. So I questioned her again and said I was worried that forcing it would mean he wouldn’t feel he could refuse or feel uncomfortable which may mean he then feels like he has to growl. She basically walked off.

    We then did puppy play where she called Maslow a bully because he jumped on another dog and pulled him off. Bearing in mind she had already seen me recall him twice to a whistle, so there was just no need to yank him like that. Plus he was bloody playing! The other dog was twice his size and tails were wagging all over the place.

    THEN we were sitting at the end and Maslow was barking, he barked 3 times total and so I stood up to walk him away (he was barking at the dog next to us to play) and was doing ‘look At that’ she stormed over, grabbed the lead out of my hand. Grabbed his face said ‘you are doing it all wrong’ and held his face to make him look at her.

    I then left.

    Oh god it was just awful. I’ve paid for another 6 sessions! I cannot go back there.
     
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  2. QuinnM15

    QuinnM15 Registered Users

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    You cannot go back. That sounds like an awful class. Switching dogs...what on earth.
     
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  3. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    This woman has won completions (obedience) at crufts. I did so much research it is ridiculous and every review is raving about her.

    Maslow was awful when we did the dog swap. Totally freaked out - the woman who had him was pushing his back (to get a sit) and after about 40 seconds I just handed her, her dog back and took him back. I was not doing that.
     
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  4. HAH

    HAH Registered Users

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    Oh @Leanne82 , you poor thing - this sounds downright traumatic :( I'd be fuming at that trainer - just goes to show people can get all sorts of awards and reviews but sometimes, it doesn't mean jack.

    Not easy, but I'd ask for my money back; if you write (and then delete the swearwords and rewrite!) an email laying out your reasons - which are all sound and based on reassurances you'd received from her before starting the class - and clearly asking for a refund minus the one class fee, she should be reasonable?

    The main thing to remind yourself is that you've absolutely done the best thing by Maslow in refusing to comply and that's tough when you've got an 'expert' pushing against you. Brava, you're an excellent owner :fistbump:
     
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  5. Aitch

    Aitch Registered Users

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    What an aweful experience for both of you! I am so glad you won't be going back there. Hugs to both of you.
     
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  6. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    I feel absolutely gutted. I was SO excited about tonight - really looking forward to it. We have been practicing loads and I was looking forward to seeing how he managed in an environment with lots of distractions. I just feel so deflated. I mean she’s a crufts champion.

    I can’t tell her that I disagree with her - OH came with me and ended up sitting in the car because he said he couldn’t watch the way she was talking to people - and that if she did to our dog what she did to some of them he would end up getting us kicked out.

    I’m torn between thinking I’m being unreasonable and that actually she’s an expert and thinking that if she grabs my dogs face again I’m the one whose going to bite her.
     
  7. SwampDonkey

    SwampDonkey Registered Users

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    You did the right thing what a cruel unkind unprofessional woman. I would have probably done more than leave. ;) well done for taking him away. She clearly know how to hurt upset and frighten dogs.
     
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  8. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    Anyone fancy helping me draft the email asking for a refund? :oops:
     
  9. SwampDonkey

    SwampDonkey Registered Users

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    Sorry it would be too sweary
    And there's picture graphic pictures
     
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  10. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    I would ask for your money back, her method of training is very out of date and even so, didn't sound very good anyway.

    I don't think you are unreasonable in any way. I am so sorry you are disappointed, there must be a better class somewhere else?
     
  11. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    Yup there was a couple of other ones... her reviews were just the best ones and I was swayed by the winning crufts thing :oops:
     
  12. leejane

    leejane Mum to the Mooster

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    I would start with a recap of your previous conversations with her, outlining what you understood her classes to consist of and how positive reinforcement would be demonstrated or trained, quoting her wherever possible.

    Then list explicit examples of what actually happened in the class, and how they contrast with what she told you before.

    Then very politely say she has completely misled you and has not fulfilled her part of the contract therefore a 5 class refund is completely reasonable. Or you'll see her in the small claims court.
     
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  13. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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    So how is this:

    Dear xxxx

    Unfortunately, after attending your first puppy class tonight with Maslow, I do not feel that the methods you use are in line with current research and recommendations for positive reinforcement training. Specifically the hands on approach you used several times tonight.

    Whilst I recognise your significant experience in this area, I do not believe this is a class that either myself or my puppy will enjoy and therefore would like to request a refund of the remaining fees after tonight’s fee is deducted.

    Could you please inform me of how you would like to process the refund and I will give you the details needed.

    Thank you.
     
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  14. drjs@5

    drjs@5 Registered Users

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    I would also call her out on breach of "verbal contract" - she said she was positive, you were mis-sold.
    Take no prisoners, don't go back x
     
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  15. Leanne82

    Leanne82 Registered Users

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  16. leejane

    leejane Mum to the Mooster

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    And elaborate a bit here saying including pushing a dog down etc, so she knows exactly which bits you are referring to
     
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  17. SteffiS

    SteffiS Registered Users

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    What an awful experience for you and Maslow. You're definitely doing the right thing asking for your money back, @JenBainbridge should be able to give you some advice on the legal aspects.
     
  18. Xena Dog Princess

    Xena Dog Princess Registered Users

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    I think you should follow Natalie @leejane's advice for the letter. I wouldn't include anything about her using outdated methods, that's going to get her hackles up and she'll be even more belligerent. A very quick and dirty version (I'm eating breakfast) would be "I booked your class based on several phone conversations (date etc) based on the understanding that you were 100% positive reinforcement. After attending the class on (date) it's clear that whilst you may use some forms of positive training, your methods were far from what I was promised (example A, B, C). I therefore request a refund because the service I was promised was not the service that was offered. (If you have a Consumer Guarantees Act or similar maybe quote that)" If she doesn't respond or responds negatively, you lodge a claim in the Small Claims court.
     
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  19. Jojo83

    Jojo83 Registered Users

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    Oh @Leanne82 I'm so, so sorry to hear of your appalling experience with that awful trainer. I would becasking for a full refund as you feel you were totally misled on her methods. I would point out that positive reward based methods do not require any physical force from the trainer. As @drjs@5 says mention breach of contract.
    Also modern trainers will not normally have more than 6 puppies in a class to make sure that distance can be created between pups and owners and more time given on an individual basis. Very few trainers allow a play time for pups - one of the useful parts of attending classes is so that pups learn that they don't vet to play with everyone.
    I'm not sure abouts you are located but happy to try and point you towards a 'proper' positive reinforcement trainer.
     
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  20. Nick19

    Nick19 Registered Users

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    An awful experience and I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. She should definitely be refunding the fees you’ve paid.

    I’m certain you’ll find another trainer where you and Maslow feel comfortable.
     

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