Dogs being problematic walking on lead comes up a lot on the forum - with usually the same kind of advice for everyone. Clicker, stop for pulling and so on. I thought this article had some new, different thoughts in it about making sure your dog has a good time on lead... http://kaylaurence.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/lead-off-good-lead-on-bad/ Charlie hates his collar. Off to think whether I can do anything about that...
Re: On lead bad... Interesting reading and some good points. One thing I have noticed is if I take Murphy for a walk (using a slip lead) whilst he`s wearing a collar he doesn`t exactly pull but the lead is taut, whereas if there is no collar he walks perfectly to heel with a loose lead?! When we are out training and there is is no collar or no lead he`s a pleasure to train, if he`s wearing a collar but off lead he can be a bit of a b*gger !! Work that one out?
Re: On lead bad... Unfortunately it is the law that dogs wear collars with identification when out! My dogs were never bothered by a collar, even the first time I put one on. They only wear a collar when we go for a walk, never in the house, though as a vet pointed out if they escaped the garden (not just my dogs!) during the night, there would be no obvious identification. My first dog was a collie/springer spaniel and in those days, dogs tended to wear choke chains, she wore hers all the time (dangerous in retrospect as she could have throttled herself with it when alone) and became upset if I ever took it off, so much so, that we buried her in it. I always think that their collars help to keep them warm ;D There is no reason why a collar should be uncomfortable if fitted properly.
Re: On lead bad... Stacia - it probably depends...on the dog, and how these things are done by the owner. It might be, with your years of experience, you are much more in tune with the emotions of dogs than you think and instinctively go about things the right way. ;D ;D ;D Actually, I think that's probably highly likely. I know my dog hates his walking equipment - other dogs might too but be less demonstrative about it (Charlie is not one for hiding his feelings!). He tolerates a collar, with bad grace (he'll try to rub it off if he can). Up until recently, I think he had a fear reaction to his harness (no, I don't think I'm being silly about that - he had an observable physical response). I think it's interesting (even if some think not particularly purposeful) to think why...and lovely that the result might be more games! ;D ;D
Re: On lead bad... I do think (some) dogs don't like being trussed up in harnesses. You could always pop collar on Charlie, give a treat, take it off, pop it on and rinse and repeat until he sees it as exciting to have it on. Mine see their collars as a precursor to a walk They have never been pulled or yanked by their collar or moved into a position, so see it as something positive. I am not saying this is why Charlie doesn't like his as I am sure you are the same as me and would never use a collar as an aversive.
Re: On lead bad... No, I've never deliberately used an aversive - unless through ignorance of knowing what I was doing and/or failure to fully recognise the impact of something on my dog. But I bet I've done lots without realising / appreciating. The article suggests a collar itself is punishing (to some degree). Charlie does think that (I'm sure it varies by dog). I was very interested in the points about "pacing" as have had this "thing" about front fastening harnesses and change of gait, now i have a reference point about what to look for. Very interesting, i think.
Re: On lead bad... I thought the part of the article that talked about a dog's natural paces was interesting, as my gundog trainer has told me that I walk too slowly for Molly to trot beside me. Fortunately most of her walks are off-lead but when on-lead I tend to mostly amble so she can walk (she's 23inches tall so has quite a long stride) interspersed with quick march (for me) so she can trot. Not sure about the collar being a problem / punishment - Molly seems completely unaware of hers & she usually has it on all day (& some nights if I forget to take it off!)
Re: On lead bad... I think I walk slowly enough (dodgy knee!) for Charlie to walk - but I will check that. My OH walks fast enough or Charlie to trot. I don't think punishment (in the context of this article) means something terrible, or necessarily a problem. The author is saying that walking equipment is something added to the dog's environment that they don't like (and for lots of dogs this dislike won't really matter) and the fact they react positively or with excitement (not my dog though) because they know a walk is coming doesn't change this. I don't think it matters - but for me, for my dog, it's interesting.
Re: On lead bad... I like the article and pretty much agree with it, especially the bit about not forcing interactions. But I'm afraid that as far as a collar and harness/lead go when we're out in public, Obi will just have to suck it up. He will have to save his nekked jaunts for home...
Re: On lead bad... With Gypsy I put the collar on to feed her for 4 weeks, now she loves it whatever reason I put it on Tatze only wears a collar to go out, so she loves it too as she loves going out
Re: On lead bad... Elsie wears her collar happily, but attach a lead and she hates it she much prefers her harness. We have walking problems but wearing a harness isn't one of them LOL
Re: On lead bad... Just for people who haven't read the article, but are reading the thread. The article: Did not say to stop using collars and leads. But did put forward the proposition that there were many reasons why walking on a collar and lead can be negative for a dog, and suggested ways this could be made more fun. Not applicable for dogs and humans already having a great time together on lead - they have obviously already cracked it. There were two slightly contradictory points made about collars - but one point was not to mistake the joy of going out with liking a collar. There wasn't a general point for most people in this, unless like me you have a dog who clearly dislikes his collar. My dog loves going out. He does not like his collar. He tolerates his collar because he doesn't get to go out without it - because he gets to go out, does not make him love his collar. Well, that's the implication I think, anyway.
Re: On lead bad... What does Charlie do that makes you believe he does not like wearing his collar? Is his collar thick, or thin, leather or nylon, padded or unpadded, smelly or not smell?! Just interested.
Re: On lead bad... Well, he used to hide under the kitchen table and refuse to come out whenever he saw it. That's decreased over time. Now, he goes under the kitchen table, I wait. He comes out slowly, hangs his head to have his collar put on, gobbles his chicken for having his collar put on, and off we go. Then he tries to rub hs collar off a few times through the walk. If I take down a slip lead instead of his collar, which i do very rarely, he rushes to the door. He has had several collars. The current one is flat canvas webbing, no tags.
Re: On lead bad... Well I do three out of the seven things she suggests. I've always let my dogs sniff I always cross the road to give space I never force intimate contact from strangers. Ok so two of them are out of necessity. : What does Charlie do to show his dislike of the collar Julie ? I'm interested because as far as I can tell my dogs don't mind their collar at all. I only put it on for outdoors. They also don't seem to mind their headcollar as far as I can tell. The only time they try to get it off is at the end of a walk when it's hot then they give it a rub but not obsessively trying to get rid of it more like an itch. I've recently changed to a gencon. I know you aren't a fan of figure of eight headcollars. To be honest I'm not sure I'd recommend them for training to stop pulling. My dogs don't pull walking I use a head collar so I feel confident I can control two large dogs if they react. I've found the gencon has made a difference to their reactivity.( I think anyway. :) If I see a trigger coming I can shorten the leads without putting any pressure on the dog. The gencon remains slack so they don't feel the tension and they don't get any signals from me. So far we have had very few incidents (probably speaking to soon :-\) since using the gencon. I tested this on a bend in our lane. I always shorten my leads as we approach because I can't see what is coming. With the old headcollars the dogs would take notice, heads go a bit bigger, looking just incase. With the gencon no reaction at all. They continued sniffing along the verge. It also feels nicer/better walking with the lead attached behind the ear rather than under the chin. The head doesnt get pulled around and it doesn't twist the face. I would rather not use a headcollar but needs must and my dogs really don't seem to care. PS sorry just seen you answered the question whilst I posted.
Re: On lead bad... Only a tiny bit of the article is about head collars, really. Although it is true Kay Lawrence is scathing about head collars (in other articles). Of the seven things, I could add the last two - about playing games. I don't cross the road to give Charlie space since it's often not practical where I walk. Added: and Charlie rarely any longer reacts to dogs on lead, although I don't like it when other dogs react (but can't complain too much, the amount of lunging Charlie has done in his time).
Re: On lead bad... If he doesn't mind a slip lead, perhaps a slim, rolled leather collar? Maybe something happened to him, or he thought something happened to him when the collar was put on, for example being taken to the vet and then left for the op? He knows if the slip lead comes out, then it is definitely a walk? Just thinking......
Re: On lead bad... Its bizzare this aversion to walking equipment, Cuillin shares Charlie's aversion to harnesses. Runs and hides when she sees them, and becomes what appears to be severely depressed when they are put on...tried everything and nothing changed this, until for some reason I put it on outside the front door recently rather than inisde the house. No problem, skippy happy Cuillin. Now I can even go to the front door with the harness in my hand and she trots out quite happily, to have it affixed outside the front door. Try to put it on IN THE HOUSE? Runs and hides still, even if we go straight out for a walk..... I'm just not trying to understand that one
Re: On lead bad... I don't think he has had a single bad experience with a collar, or a harness. He has always been like this, and not much has made a difference although over time he has become less stressed by it all, apart from one point when it got much worse. I honestly think the diagnosis in the article is probably right - for Charlie. Walks are lovely, some aspects of being on lead are very negative for him - I'd guess since he is so very poor at frustration management, it's reason number 1) in the article, the rest seem less likely. It may also have got better over time as I have gradually incorporated some of the things that are suggested as solutions (eg sniffing on lead). Have just read Debsie's comment - Charlie is better when he is out of the house to have his harness on. I think this is a lot of mixed emotions. Once he is excited by the walk, the negativity of the harness is less important.
