Charlie just does not get the whistle when outside. He just dragged me across our garden on the training line and I had to let go. He had his head in the trees etc. He did 2 recalls and the other 2 were with extra calls. We have been stuck on this exercise for over 2 weeks now. Not sure if he is ever going to get it. What should I do to improve this? Helen
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Do you feed him his breakfast and dinner in a bowl? If yes, stop, and only feed him from your hand whilst you are training as a reward for a good recall. I had to do this for many months with my rescue cocker. I fed him on a combination of oily fish and tripe, which wasn't very pleasant for me or anyone who came close to me, but the dog loved it and he now has 100% recall in any situation.
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Hello Helen, Two steps forward and one back again - you are getting there, just rather slowly. How many recalls will he do? Is it just the one? If you're getting one or two good ones and then he's failing on any more maybe it's time to cut the number and stick with the number you know (fingers crossed) he'll do with huge (and I mean huge RADA worthy praise) after each before even attempting to add in one more. When I'm working with my girls as youngsters (which Charlie is in training terms) I think I should be oscar nominated, leaping around the garden, cavorting and telling them what superstars they are, I really hope no-one in my family takes it upon themselves to record it! I'd be mortified. I really try to make myself the ultimate prize in coming back to me, bribes in the form of treats are only part of the equation, eventually, to be left behind along with the madcap behaviour. At least that's the idea. I try not to let them fail, as soon as I get one 'bad' reaction, even if it's just a slower than I'd like return, I stop the exercise and return to something I know they'll do so I can reward them for that and then call it a day for that training period. Hope that helps, stick at it, we're all behind you. Kerryn
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Hi, it varies, some days I get 4 good in the morning and 4 good in the afternoon. Sometimes 2, it depends on the bird situation! I do over the top praise etc. This morning and this afternoon not good. I did stop the exercise today and brought him inside as ALL he wants to do is tear round the garden ignoring me and anyone else that's there. Is that wrong? If he can't do this simple exercise in our garden on a training line how on earth is he ever going to do it off lead I do feed him his meals from a browl, but the Total Recall requires a premium treat so he is having cooked chicken for this exercise and he is hungry when I train him. Thanks for your help - again... Helen
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Hi Sounds like he's a bit of a scatterbrain, that'll be the pointer. I would try learning his language before getting him to understand ours. And by that I mean watching him to see what triggers the dashing about and even more how his posture, muscle tone, ear position, eyes move and change as that distraction registers in his head. It can be something really small like a twitch of an ear to something more obvious like a raised paw, his pointer half might make his nose point and his neck stretch a little. When you can see that you're one step ahead of him and can step in before he belts off. Takes lots of practice and each dog is different, Juno had an ear twitch, a hitch step and a little point, Maia's ears come up and her head lifts, Hebe's tail is her give away. If he's distracted then keep the number low or not even try if you can't catch his attention easily, try not to let him fail. Is your garden secure? When he tears off could you very pointedly and noisily walk away and safely leave him? If you can then do so and watch from a window, when he calms down go out and try calling him in. If this is possible then I'd try this when he's totally ignoring you and in danger of hurting you by pulling the long line. Another possibility: Would it be possible to tether the long line to something? I have a long 'corkscrew' tether. If Charlie can't get beyond you and being such a big strong dog, can't pull the line from you, you can then walk down the line to grab him and scruff him in gentle chastisement. There's no point telling off a dog that hasn't got a clue what it's supposed to do but Charlie does know what he's supposed to do it's just that the rest of the world is more interesting at the moment, so you need to make it more important that he does as he's bid and part of that is letting him know you're unhappy with his actions as well as pleased when he does it right. Sometimes we get so hung up on the praise aspect we forget that we can remind dogs that the wrong behaviour is met with our displeasure which can be shown in vocal growling 'bad dog', shaking of the scruff, back turning etc you don't have to be brutal about it, dogs, especially labradors are sensitive souls and a 'bad dog' often as not is enough. Hope that helps. Kerryn PS Did you find a paddock for him?
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Hi Kerryn, here is how it goes with Charlie, we enter our garden on the training lead or a lead and he is scanning and poised ready to bolt, make him sit, take his lead off, no time for anything else he is GONE tearing round and couldn't care less whether I am there, what I do or say. If he is not let off he pulls like crazy taking me with him and doesn't listen to any commands therefore I can't even do any basic training. I have been leaving him to burn off as our garden is secure and watch him from a window only to witness his lunatic behaviour. He doesn't even notice that he is on his own. I let Hattie out with him she tries so hard to get him to play, sometimes he will for short bursts and off again and she gets fed up and comes in. Even after a serious run he is in no state to train as he is watching the sky for birds. Not sure about the corkscrew tether as I don't think it would hold and nothing else only trees. I haven't been telling him off but I am completely frustrated now and I think he can sense it and I told him NO in a very rumbly voice this afternoon and brought him in much to his disappointment and he looked like he knew what he had done, but he will do exactly the same tomorrow and the next day. He won't even come when I call him in from the garden as he still wants to run like crazy. He will be 2 on Saturday and we are getting seriously worried now as NOTHING seems to work with him, 14 months and so little improvement. He is not a puppy now and I am tired of his behaviour, he simply has no respect for me what so ever. I have never witnessed anything like his behaviour before he is completely off the planet and in orbit. My daughter who is 18 and I are going to start obedience classes soon if I have any energy left. I could go to dog classes, agility every day of the week and I trully believe there would no improvement. I am not exagerating believe me. Just don't know what else I can do. Thanks for your help. Helen :'(
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Hi Helen , I`m sorry that I cant add to the good advice from Kerryn , just to say that I really feel for you , trying so very hard with Charlie , in my thoughts x
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! From me too Helen. You really are doing everything you can. :'(
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Think we have done all we can. We are not "dog handlers" and Charlie should never have been placed with us in the first place. We are not doing him any favours as we don't understand what to do with him, we are drowning in advice, books, training, classes and so the list goes on. Charlie needs an EXPERIENCED owner with Labrador or Pointer experience. The longer he has no off lead the more frustrated he becomes and the less he can learn so it just seems to be a vicious circle. Helen :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Are you anywhere near a safe beach with seagulls? If so, let him chase the seagulls until he is utterly exhausted and that should put him off for the future of chasing again, as long as he doesn't catch one! I did this with swallows with my GSP and it worked, never chased again. I am assuming Charlie is half a Pointer and not half a German Shorthaired Pointer? The GSPs do calm down between three and four years of age and you may find this with Charlie. Stacia
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! No where near a beach and the man that had him before us returned him for chasing seagulls and not recalling. He isn't even 2 yet don't know if we can cope another 1 - 2 years. He is a half lab pointer. Thanks Helen
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Forgot to mention, when Charlie was allowed off lead until 2 months ago, he would run, run, and run some more then return to us collapse to the ground, stretch out his whole body, as he had cramp, slobber all round his face, breathing so quickly we thought he was going to die on the spot. This is how he conducted himself on a daily basis. Thanks Helen
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Helen , I could weep for you , this must be such agony for you all . There is a condition called Exercise Induced Collapse , the symptoms sounds very similar to what you describe , I`m afraid that I dont know a lot about it except that it does usually affect younger dogs , there exercise has to be seriously curtailed because of the risk factor . Maybe someone else will know more about this ? I am really sad for you, can really sense your frutration and desperation x
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! I'm joining Kate in weeping for you, you're trying so very hard. I really hope the paddock helps. But I think you're on to something when you said, "he simply has no respect for me what so ever". I feel that we get so tied up on rewarding we forget we can chastise too. And I have a feeling that Charlie might be that way, I had one lab who no matter how much we praised she just didn't get it, she knew what she was supposed to do and would do so when it suited her but flatly refused most other times. When we switched from praise to growls - initially in exasperation I admit - we finally began to get somewhere with her. We didn't know about dog whispering or anything like that then (it was about 20 years ago) but used simple rules to enforce that she was dog and we were people. Making her wait for breakfast and tea, making sure she never went ahead of us through gates and doors etc. I now find out these are basic tricks of Jan Fennell's Dog Whisperer, a friend with a rescued lurcher was at the end of her tether with the dog and used the dog whisperer technique as a last resort and was amazed at the difference it made. I don't think it would interfere with your other training style, it's more a change in the way we approach and handle our dogs.
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! I agree, but to be fair to Charlie I don't allow him to go through doors, gates, styles etc. before me he is always made to sit and wait and does not get to go until I tell him, which does take a while but he gets it in the end. He also would wait all day for a meal until I say "OK". He won't even take a hide chew unless Hattie is given hers first, if I try to give it to him first he turns his head towards her, she takes it and then he will take his, so I know he can do all the basics inside, it's the outside work as everything else is far more interesting. I will try the growls and see if that makes a difference. Thank you everyone for your weeps!! xxx
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Helen, you sound completely exhausted and at the end of your tether with Charlie, and I don't blame you at all. It must seem as though you have tried everything and nothing works. However, there is a lot of good advice in this thread. Including Heidrun's hand feeding advice, which has been shown to be very effective with rescue dogs. You are absolutely right that you need to overcome this problem in the garden, or you stand no chance of doing so anywhere else. One thing you could do at this point, to get past this 'hurdle' of being unable to get Charlie to focus on you outdoors, is to stop feeding Charlie at meal times. Divide his daily food ration up into four or five portions and make each one contingent on a recall. Mix the meal up with the premium treats if that helps. Let him out in the garden for his 'mad half hour', and recall him only when he begins to pay you some attention. Make sure he only gets a meal after a garden recall. Make the meal small so that you can repeat later in the day. He has to eat at some point! Pippa
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Pippa that sounds like a good idea, I will do that tomorrow and see what happens. Lets see if being a lunatic is more important than food! Thanks. Helen
Re: One Man Garden Recall just not happening! Fingers crossed that running in the safe paddock gets rid of some of Charlie's excess energy, and that he then comes back to you to get his food! Great idea of Heidrun's, sounds so obvious when you think about it, do hope it works, though it may of course take some time. Keep plugging away Helen, we're all thinking about you. Karen
