Re: Place Board well Place Mat Well it sounds like your release isn't strong enough, he should always move on your release cue. I rewarded Charlie on the board for ages, probably about two months, before I introduced a release. Then I rewarded the release. I do that now, I don't reward the wait on the board, I reward moving on the release. You could work on the release cue separately perhaps?
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Strange because his release is good in other areas of training, even doing other stop whistle training. How did you get your Charlie to move off the board without a release?
Re: Place Board well Place Mat For close placeboard work, the click was the release for Charlie, so he moved on the click. I substituted my release cue for the click.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat I've just watched this kikopup vid for another reason but she talks about training and proofing a release cue in it....might be of use https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksBLKi6lj1s note: as one of the comments points out some trainers use the click as a release which is different to kikopup as seen in the early part where she does several C&Ts for a continuous sit. If the click were a release the dog would get up part way through. I guess if you want to use the click as a release you would reward length of sit/stay with continuous treats but no click
Re: Place Board well Place Mat For my Charlie, whether he moves on the click or not depends on where I place the reward. So by being consistent with reward delivery, I can choose whether he moves on the click or not.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat How are you getting on Helen ? I'm a bit late catching up with this and I'm afraid my place board training ground to a halt ages ago when my board fell to bits so I can't give much advice on using the board. You might have already sorted your release cue off the board if so ignore the rest of this. : When I trained stay I used the kikopup video, the one Barbara has conveniently linked to. As Barbara has mentioned she doesn't use the clicker as a release she immediately trains a release cue. I found this useful when training both dogs together. If the click had been the release they might both have moved . With a cue I say their name then the cue and the other one remains in the stay. It may be, I'm only guessing, that Charlie finds the cue to sit on the board stronger than the release cue. I'd try giving the release cue then if he doesn't move off the board really encourage him and reward. Kikopup shows this on the video. Personally I think you've done the hard bit getting him to go and sit on the mat on cue. Do you use the click as a release for other areas of training or do you want the click to be a release? If not then it could get confusing. As he already has a release cue personally I'd stick with that. Then again I could be wrong. :
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Thanks Jen, yes Charlie finds it easy to go and stay on the mat using the stop whistle and will stay there till the cows come home, this literally took a few minutes to teach but he sometimes not always seems confused about the release cue which has always been the same, when he does release after encouragement I give him lots or praise and a treat. I haven't used the click as a release in other training but maybe it would be useful in this instance :-\ Thank you Barbara for the link x
Re: Place Board well Place Mat OK, just tried something new, we have moved to a long hall way and all is great with the stop whistle, treating him on the mat, when I verbally released Charlie he did really well and after a few goes I let him play tug with a rabbit skin dummy tug toy I have made and he dropped on command. He did get a little excitable and took a little while to settle down to continue but he did. When we had finished training I let him have another tug and put it away. Tomorrow I think I will only allow the rabbit tug toy when we have finished training. Not sure if this is acceptable though ??? x
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Why don't you think it's acceptable ? If he is following cues etc well for a food reward then continue with that and as you've said when you've finished and you stop after he's done a really good one he gets the tug toy as a big reward. It's probably a good idea if you think the rabbit skin is getting him too excited and taking too long to calm down so you can continue training. You might find though that as he gets used to the tug toy he doesn't get quite so worked up so you can use it whilst training. Today was the first time he'd seen it.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat You can use the tug toy as a reward however you want. Although, it's supposed to be a big jump around exciting game. Or, at least that's how I use it, when excitement is asuitable as a big reward. I wouldn't use it in the house, to be honest.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat [quote author=Jen link=topic=9403.msg138002#msg138002 date=1421687208] Why don't you think it's acceptable ? If he is following cues etc well for a food reward then continue with that and as you've said when you've finished and you stop after he's done a really good one he gets the tug toy as a big reward. It's probably a good idea if you think the rabbit skin is getting him too excited and taking too long to calm down so you can continue training. You might find though that as he gets used to the tug toy he doesn't get quite so worked up so you can use it whilst training. Today was the first time he'd seen it. [/quote] Oh thanks Jen nice to know I am using this correctly as a reward x [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9403.msg138009#msg138009 date=1421688983] You can use the tug toy as a reward however you want. Although, it's supposed to be a big jump around exciting game. Or, at least that's how I use it, when excitement is asuitable as a big reward. I wouldn't use it in the house, to be honest. [/quote] Thanks Julie, I am very lucky that I have a lot of space indoors so I can jump around for exciting games with Charlie and it really worked because soon as I released him which was successful every time as he saw the rabbit dummy toy we did a fun tug game, drop and onto another stop, so hopefully I can incorporate the play as a reward too in other training x
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Charlie is really working hard for the cobbled together rabbit skin tug toy, he goes to the mat on command and sits to the stop whistle, I reward him with treats on the mat walk, I away with the rabbit toy he doesn't move a muscle and is totally focused on me until I release him "OK" for a tug game, we do this about 6 times and have a really good tug at the end of our training. His release cue is bang on now I really need a place board though. xx
Re: Place Board well Place Mat If he is sitting on the mat as you want, will return to the mat on cue from any direction, and you have duration, you need to try in new locations now (going back to the beginning and dropping the stop whistle until the behaviour is reliable and fluent again). You can try with the mat, but I find they blow away and are not a clear location for the dog in grass. But I managed in the garden for a while with a mat. Don't contaminate your stop while you train the mat though - the idea is to train the mat at a large distance, then use it to strengthen your stop.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Oh thank you ladies, but lets not forget I am still indoors as I really want to nail this before moving on [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9403.msg138683#msg138683 date=1421877925] If he is sitting on the mat as you want, will return to the mat on cue from any direction, and you have duration, you need to try in new locations now (going back to the beginning and dropping the stop whistle until the behaviour is reliable and fluent again). You can try with the mat, but I find they blow away and are not a clear location for the dog in grass. But I managed in the garden for a while with a mat. Don't contaminate your stop while you train the mat though - the idea is to train the mat at a large distance, then use it to strengthen your stop. [/quote] We are definitely doing all of this Julie and Charlie is doing really rather well too Ordered my tug e nuff rabbit bungee today so that should help for his play reward
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Lots you can do indoors...if you wanted to be able to send him to the mat (eventually it'll be too far away for him to see it), you can do back, out, left and right....you can start all of those indoors.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Sounds like Charlie is making loads of progress Helen. Well done. ;D and all for a home made tug toy. Let's hope he loves the bought one as much.
Re: Place Board well Place Mat Well the young man is doing pretty well I think, we are at 15 meters indoors with a good "place" and release "OK" from different directions too, we have a long sit/stay on the mat and good focus on me. At the end of training her gets a good play with his favourite tug toy (not the rabbit bungee Julie ) to end on real fun time!! I have also been practising "back" which he has always been really good at but not sure how to do a "right" and "left"? Our fence is going up so hopefully I will be able to move into the garden in the next few weeks to start distance "place" and using my stop whistle at a bit of a distance xx
Re: Place Board well Place Mat [quote author=charlie link=topic=9403.msg140720#msg140720 date=1422707900] but not sure how to do a "right" and "left"? [/quote] Have the placeboard to your right (or left). You should be standing so if the dog sits in front of you, he is lined up with the placeboard (you use that later). Wait for your dog to go on his placeboard (which he should do without a cue as you've rewarded that so much by now), click and feed the treat directly in front of you, using the treat to line him up straight in front and in line with the board to his side. Repeat. Once the behaviour is fluent and reliable (he goes on his board, releases on the click, and returns for his treat to sit in front of you, without hesitating or any failure) add your cue.
