Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

As a former vet tech (a very long time ago!), I seem to remember that giardia is only alive in the sample for a very short period of time. If the sample isn't tested within about a half hour of exiting the dog, it will be very, very difficult to detect giardia. I believe there are more modern tests that can be done but don't know if all vets have access to the equipment or labs. You might want to do some online research on giardia in dogs. If the techs at your vet waited for very long to test the stool sample, it's unlikely they'd find anything.

From VCAhospitals.com:
A routine fecal flotation test may fail to detect these tiny cysts, which are shed inconsistently in the feces, and which often require a special zinc sulfate flotation solution for detection. Occasionally, the parasites may be seen on a direct smear of the feces. If your veterinarian suspects giardiasis, a sample of stool may be analyzed for the presence of Giardia specific antigens (cell proteins). Many cases are presumptively diagnosed on the basis of medical history and clinical signs suggestive of giardiasis.

For environmental disinfection, you can use chlorine bleach at 1:32 or 1:16 dilutions, or 1-2 cups in a gallon of water (60-120 mls/L). However, be sure that the affected surfaces can be safely treated with bleach. Lysol® and quaternary ammonium compounds (Parvosol®, etc.) are also reported to be effective in killing the cysts. Giardia cysts are susceptible to drying so try to keep your environment as dry as possible. For best results, thoroughly clean the pet's living and sleeping areas and then allow the areas to dry out for several days before reintroducing pets.

Both these websites had lots of good info on giardia. Several sites, including these, also mention fenbendazole as a good treatment for giardia. That's the active ingredient in the dewormer I mentioned in an earlier post, SafeGuard.

This is the URL for the CDC in Atlanta, Ga: http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/giardia/giardia-and-pets.html

This is the URL for the Merck Veterinary Manual (if you're not familiar with this manual, it' great! A bible for vets... http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/digestive_system/giardiasis/overview_of_giardiasis.html

Of course, none of this matters if she doesn't have giardia!

Time for a new vet...

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Hi Rosamund.

If you still haven't heard from the vet and you have time I'd go and demand to speak to a vet and not leave until I had. Take another sample. Unless you think Vespa needs to go I wouldn't put her through the stress and they will charge you for looking at her they shouldn't charge for just talking to you. However if you do think she needs to be seen obviously she should go.

I got royal canin sensitivity control and pro/pre biotics from www.vetuk.co.uk

They are very prompt usually and postage is only £1.99. It's cheaper then from the vet.

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Hi.
Thanks for the very helpful feedback. I rang the vet first thing because they didn't call me back yesterday and was slightly more to te point than normal and they went and found me a vet to speak to straight away. They have the sample I took in yesterday and say it will be sent away today-I was happy with that until I read you post about it not surviving. Argh. What now? Do I go and say that? They seem to think it might be tapeworm. Is this likely? They say the test will take 7-10 days and that I might need a 'top shelf antibiotic' (?) that is expensive. ?? They have also said to come and get 3 days of pancur from them. Sounds like the sample might be too old then..? They will test for tapeworm, campylobacter and giardia. Does this all sound right?

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

It sounds right to me. I don't know the symptoms of tape worm but by testing for all those things anything else it might be should be found.

They grow cultures to test for campylobacter so any other bugs should also show up. It takes at least a week. I got two lots of results because some bugs show up quicker than others.

If you are going to pick up some panacur you could take another sample or ring and ask if a fresh sample would be better.

I assume by top shelf antibiotic they mean a specific antibiotic rather than a broad spectrum antibiotic which unfortunately probably will be more expensive. :

Im glad they are finally doing something keep us posted hopefully it will get sorted soon.

PS you could ask about feeding some sensitivity control then although it might come out worse the other end Vespa will be getting food which will help if she's fighting a bug or worms.

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Hi.
Took another sample in today. They refused to take it a because they said the old one would be fine and complained the last one wasn't in a 'poo pot'. No mention of non call back yesterday. They gave me pancur. I took it home and was about to give it to Vespa when I read that on the packet it says '1 sachet per 10kg of dog' which for Vespa would be just under 2 and a half sachets. The vet had put a sticker on saying 1.25 sachets once a day for three days. I rang up to check if she really wanted me to only give Vespa a half dose. (If read that this is a waste of time and does nothing) I was told she'd ring me back as receptionist thought this was odd too. That was t 5.30. They close at 7 and surprise surprise no call back. I tried ringing at ten to 7 and they got quite annoyed. So what do I give her? Full dose? Half dose? I suppose I'll do what the vet said on the sticker but hey. Who knows?

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

I hope you sort something for Vespa soon.

I can't understand why you haven't already gone to a different vet though. :-\

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

I would definitely go and find a different vet tomorrow and explain all the problems you have been having. At the end of the day, Vespa is the one who is suffering and it appears that your vet isn't that bothered. To me, that is unacceptable
I hope you get something sorted very soon x

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Oh dear. Really sorry to hear about all these problems.
If you have insurance, do they have an advice line at all? I know that Argos Pet insurance do offer this and so wondered if you might be able to get some independent advice that way.
Just a thought.
Sounds like you have some suggestions of where else to go though.
I would be jumping ship sharpish.

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

They sound hopeless. I'd be outta there. Get the new vet to request all of Vespa's records.

Poor you, you don't need this frustration on top of the worry about your dog.

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Run, don't walk, to your nearest alternate vet!

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Well, that would have sold it for me! Definitely time to find another vet.

I can totally understand wanting to have one vet that you see all the time with your dog so you get to know them and they get to know you, but does it really matter if you see someone different sometimes, as long as you are getting the best care possible? Sometimes it's good to have a different perspective on things too.

When my Penny was a pup she suffered continuously with urine infections so were back and forth with the vet a few times. Sometimes we saw the same person, sometimes we didn't. It wasn't until the 3rd different vet we saw that the actual cause of her urine infections was picked up - and inverted vulva. This vet was the only one who thought to do an actual physical examination. The others just checked out her urine samples and lobbed me some antibiotics with a "that's £65 please"

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

I really don't like the attitude of your vet or should I say the receptionist.

The amount of times they have said they will call you back and haven't is terrible. I know vets are very busy but that's just rude and unprofessional in my opinion as is their attitude. My old dog had a lump removed from his flank. The head vet rang me at nine o'clock on a Sunday night with the results !

Personally I'd find a new vet then if you can be bothered go back to the old one, ask to see the head vet or practice manager and tell them how unprofessional they are. In a polite way of course. I think a complaint in a polite but firm manner has much more impact.

I do hope this is all sorted very soon it must be awful for you.

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Oh heck Rosamund, I have missed this thread No wonder you are looking for another vet!
I hope you find one soon or at least get an apology and action from the current one in the meantime. Their care and concern seems poor at best; it is their job to understand how worried owners can be as well as how to treat the animal

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Thank you for your support.
Vespa seems a little better today. I think the Kong Wobbler thing cheered he up!

I went to my vet this morning because I tried calling again and they had the 'we're closed' voice message on half an hour after they opened. Anyway I went in and asked if I could speak to the vet or come back when they were free and thy got really stroppy and said come back tomorrow. Anyway, I said this was the third day I'd been trying to speak to someone etc and left.

Vespa now has a new vet. I didn't want to go to just the nearest etc so I phoned round quite a few of the recommendations I'd had and made a decision. I couldn't do it yesterday because I was working and I didn't want to rush the decision. Anyway, I have found a vet who is happy with raw feeding and a practice where the whole atmosphere seems very different. The receptionist said "oh let me just ask the vet" and was back two minutes later. Totally cheerful and polite. The difference was quite incredible. :-D

Re seeing the same vet all the time-you're totally right of course and I have been happy to see a few different vets over the last three years but my current oh no-OLD-vet practice had about 4 different surgeries and all the 12 or so vets chopped and changed between the 4 and it felt like you never saw the same person twice! It isn't an issue for me as I'm sure they're all equally qualified etc it's just that the last one was saying Vespa was anxious and should wear a pheromone collar and I was trying to explain that she was fine normally but a little shy/sensitive at the vet and that I thought seeing the same person a few times in a row might help. It's like the doctor I suppose-sometimes you're happy to see anyone especially if it is short notice but for certain things you might feel you want to see someone who knows you or with whom you feel more at ease.
I think the problem has been just that they are so so busy and maybe have taken on more people than allows them to give a personal service. I also think the receptionists are pretty poor but hey. I just suddenly thought-what if this was the end of Vespa's life or a real emergency and I couldn't get through to anyone or was getting nowhere etc. It would be so upsetting.
Anyway, Vespa has a new vet. Hooray. There are only two actual vets plus a few nurses and you can request appointments with them for things like nails, weight, lesser worries etc which must free up a lot of the vets' time. Seems sensible to me.
Fingers crossed and thanks again. Hopefully things will improve from now on.
:-D
Xxx from Vespa

Ps still slightly worried about the whole giardia thing since everywhere I look seems to say how impossible it is to diagnose or completely eradicate.

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Well done!! The new vet sounds like a massive improvement.

The old vets did not deserve your hard earned $$. Bad service, bad organisational design and bad advice.

I hope that you won't look back with the new vet. Have you got an appointment to talk about the upset tum?

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Yes-Monday afternoon. They know what's happening and what she's taken etc and the test result from the other vet will be forwarded to them. Feel v relieved.
Thanks. :-D

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

That's fantastic Hopefully this is the turning point

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Good news ;D

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Fab news hopefully they will get to the bottom of Vespa's problems x

 

Re: Probiotics/bright orange diarrhoea/losing the plot..

Oh that's great news, I'm so pleased for you!

Obviously you may still need to wait for the test results but hopefully you can start getting some actual answers and theories that will help your pup.