Hey guys, Bob is great off lead, his recall seems to be pretty solid. The problems are when we are walking along the road when he has to have a lead on. He PULLS!!!! Usually I have my little boy with me for walks.. and he either runs on ahead causing Bob to pull like a train. OR he insists on holding the lead and he lets Bob pull him along. My OH says I shouldn't let my son hold the lead in case he lets go, which I am in complete agreement with. But with an autistic child, sometimes you have to pick your battles to prevent a complete meltdown, so if the road is quiet I generally let him hold Bob for an easy life. I'd love to say no to him but I run the risk of him running off in a complete state of despair if I don't And I also want him to enjoy dog walks as well... rather than me saying NO NO NO all the time to him. And it's not helping when I DO go out on my own with Bob which I have started to do in the evenings when my son is in bed... the pulling is awful. I feel like I might be getting somewhere but then the next day it is all undone again when I go out with my little boy. GAH! Any advice from someone who has been there and done it before? Thanks, Lou x
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead When your son holds Bob, could you have two leads on, one for you and one for your son? Could your son practice round the house doing heel work with Bob?
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead [quote author=Stacia link=topic=9227.msg132377#msg132377 date=1419431711] When your son holds Bob, could you have two leads on, one for you and one for your son? Could your son practice round the house doing heel work with Bob? [/quote] Not a bad idea Stacia - I might try that, thank you! Bob is always looking to me when I say heel for a treat... so it does get a bit confusing for him when he's attached to my son! Lou x
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead And if Bob lunged when your son was holding him, there would be no fear of Bob running off as you would still have him.
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead Well....it is possible to teach a young labrador to walk to heel, even if not everyone is consistent. But you make a hard battle even harder. My OH would only stop if Charlie reached the end of his lead and pulled. I insisted on a walk by my side. It was tough, but now Charlie walks at the end of his lead with OH, and by my side.... There is one thing that I do which might help. I reserve a limited slip lead for myself. When Charlie is on this lead, he has to walk by my side, no sniffing, no peeing etc. I put out a flat collar and a long lead for everyone else. I also have different cues for "go sniff" and "close" - I hold the lead differently and so on. So, it should be possible, by using different cues (verbal and the circumstances - different collars etc) for Bob to tell the difference in what he is being asked to do. The other tip I have is to train a "on my left" cue - so train the position you want him to be in when you are walking and get it on cue - properly on cue, so he is consistent in returning to that position when asked. When he pulls, wait for him to return to the position by your side, count to ten, and set off again. And don't spare the treats, in difficult circumstances, you can click and treat every step at heel if you have to (but don't keep doing that - do ask for more once he's got it).
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead I struggled with Harley pulling for over a year. I tried different harnesses, leads, collars etc. my dog walker suggested using a Bridle head collar......completely changed....no more pulling. It is attached to the lead so easy to control. My husband walks Harley completely different to me - I can't have her pulling due to spinal injuries - with hubby she pulls like mad. My daughter also uses the head collar now and loves it. We don't let her sniff with it on, but it is great for getting to her off lead walk I do occasionally use one harness (cosy dogs) if we are doing a short walk in the evening so she can sniff. Since using the head collar she has also been much better on the harness
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead I do think head collars certainly seem to be life savers for some - particularly if, like Naya, health issues make it difficult to cope otherwise (or in the meantime). Some people, myself included, do think that even the ones that don't tighten around the head are at least mildly aversive - not everyone thinks this though. But just something to consider before you go to that as an option. Naya - I don't mean this to be critical of your choice to use one, I completely understand it, just putting another point of view to go alongside the positive experience you have had of head collars.
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead Not a problem Julie - always good for people to have lots of different views before deciding what is best for them
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead Thanks everyone, some ideas to explore certainly. I do like the idea of having 2 leads that way Arthur will feel he's holding Bob but really I will be! It could work.. I'll try it and see. If not then I guess we'll just have to do more lead training on our own as much as possible. I'll also speak with our trainer to get her ideas as well when we start our classes again next year
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9227.msg132386#msg132386 date=1419436340] I also have different cues for "go sniff" and "close" - I hold the lead differently and so on. [/quote] I do this, too - very early stages! But, when I want them to walk to heel, I hold the end of my lead in my right hand and pick up the slack with my left (or not, if I'm treating or need that hand for something else). On a "go sniff" walk, I hold the end of the lead in my left hand. Willow is getting the idea of this and I change it up during the walk. The biggest issue is convincing them to "go sniff" once they have it in their heads they get a treat for heel
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=9227.msg132504#msg132504 date=1419464743] The biggest issue is convincing them to "go sniff" once they have it in their heads they get a treat for heel [/quote] But when shadow is older - and the natural inclination of all boys emerges, which is to glue his nose to the ground and haul you along after him as he chases those smells, your work now will pay back big time.
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead I use 2 leads when my Grandson visits. Jake is 7, he has little experience of dogs and certainly not strong enough to deal with a 15 month old Lab if she decides to 'forget her training". He holds the lead attached to the Gentle Leader and I walk on the other side of Molly holding a lead attached to a conventional collar. He delights in being 'in charge of her' and she (lord love her) seems to realise his limitations and walks nicely for him. I guess I have been relegated to the position of 'safety belt' Merry Christmas.
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead Can I ask... Bob will pull us all the way to where we eventually let him off the lead. Our walk takes us through a town centre as well... and there are many dogs and people to encourage more pulling. I have the following thoughts and would appreciate opinions if that is OK. 1. I think we've ruined the HEEL command now.. Bob takes no notice of it at all. So should we start again using WALK or CLOSE as a command instead? 2. Shall we NOT let him off lead at all during heel walk practise even when we've reached our off lead area? Today he pulled me so much it was horrible I was nearly in tears. I ended up having him on such a short lead and he was pretty much walking on his back legs the whole time it was so depressing. And he pulled my little boy over as well once. When we got to our off lead bit of the walk, I let him off, that was probably a bad idea wasn't it? I mean I've reinforced the pulling by giving him his reward of being off lead. If he's pulling should I keep him on the lead the whole time? Or am I asking too much by expecting a good lead walk through town, a run and a play and a good lead walk back home again? He's only 5 months. 3. Varying the route e a lot so he never knows where he is going could help? 4. Or another thought, shall we either do lead training OR off lead walking.. ie keep them separate? Pop him in car for off lead and just let him straight off? And keep lead walking JUST that in and around town? Thank you for your help. Lou x
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead 1. I would use a new word. 2. Can you get a harness for walks to off lead area. Use normal lead and collar for training. 3. Yes. 4. If you can pop him in the car for off lead walking and only use collar and lead for training. I feel for you. I have never been consistant enough for any of my dogs to walk nicely. I have really tried with Cupar and I am still trying.
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead It sounds like you are trying to walk him far too far, with distractions he just can't cope with. How far can you walk him down a quiet, familiar, street without him pulling? If the answer is 10m then that is as far as you've got. So you just can't set off to do a long walk through a town centre and expect him not to pull. I'd drive him to off lead walks. And start your lead walking from scratch - train on the same, quiet street, until he can walk nicely. Then you'll find you have to do the same on a different quiet street, just because it's a different street. Then a slightly more exciting street- and so on, and so on. Don't add a cue, until you have the behaviour.
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead Hey Lou, since we're about at the same stage with our pups, I'll pipe in here and tell you what I'm doing, which I think is pretty consistent with most of the advice, but the more experienced peeps may pipe up. I'll tell you everything I do, some of which may not be relevant, but you can cherry-pick! I'll talk about Willow, since she's the more challenging one. Most of our walks are on very quiet roads to the mountain paths where they go walking. I made the mistake early on of always walking Willow on a lead on this road and then letting her off for a run at the end. Consequence: she started pulling whenever we got towards the end of the road. So, with the advice given here, every time she pulled, even slightly, I'd stop and wait for her to come back to me before walking on. If she wasn't coming back, I'd walk backwards until she did, or completely turn around and walk in the opposite direction. To do this, you have to realise that your walk may take twenty minutes to walk five metres, so you can't do it if you have to go somewhere! I also read that dogs like to feel constant pressure, so when she gets really insistent about something, a smell maybe, I (very gently) "pulse" on the lead. I mean gently - I'm not pulling her back, it's just so there's not a constant pressure. Sure enough, she gets irritated by it within seconds and comes back. Whenever she comes back, she gets a click and treat. I sometimes keep her on lead on the mountain paths, or let her off the lead earlier. I always ask for a walk to heel for a while (even if it's just a few paces) after she's been let off the lead, and I do some sits and other little training bits. During the walk, I'll put her back on the lead generally at least once, always at different times and for different durations (sometimes it's only 30 seconds, other times maybe 5 minutes), so she never knows when the lead is going on or coming off. She can be a bit barky at people in hoods and hats when she's on the lead, and pulls towards them. Obviously something I don't want. So, now I've started doing a "look at that", which means as soon as she looks at the person approaching, I'll click, which brings her attention to me, and then treat her. This is woking fabulously well and I've not had a bark since I've been doing it! Tonight, I took a walk with her through the village, which is super busy this week. She didn't pull or bark at one person. Sure, she pulled towards a couple of smells, but I brought her attention back to me and she was fine. I'm only telling you that because it wouldn't have been possible even a couple of weeks ago, so it's definitely something you can achieve with Bobbert As for cues, I'm taking it super slow with that. I hold the lead differently for my two types of walk. When I want them to walk to heel, I have the loop in my right hand and pick up the slack with my left. When they're allowed to wander a little more freely (although still not pull), I hold the loop in my left hand. When off-lead, my cue is a physical one; I hold my hand down at my side, with a single finger pointing towards the floor. They picked this up really quickly - I started only doing it when they were walking by me (obviously starting off with a treat in my hand, then progressing to no treat, but using lots of C&Ts), then when they were just a little ahead, I'd check them with a noise (I make a bit of an airy almost-whistle sound) which would make them look back, and point with my finger - it would just bring them back as if by magic I'm now adding a verbal cue of "heel" at the moment they're in that position, but I wouldn't expect them to respond to it yet if they weren't already in that position. They certainly respond much more strongly to visual cues than verbal ones. Individually, they're coming on really well with their lead work. Together, they're a bit of a menace, whether being walked by one person or two. So, that's something we have to spend time working on! I hope this has given you some ideas and maybe a little help. Just remember, he's still only young and everything takes time. xxx
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead I think it is vital that he needs off lead exercise to burn off some of that energy and also to give you the opportunity to practice recall and also keeping his eye on you when you unexpectedly keep changing direction. If you are unable to do what Snowbunny suggests because you don't have the time, though I feel that is the best way to go, when you get to the park, make sure he does at least three steps to heel, before you let him off. Start at the gate, if he pulls, go back to the gate, take a step, if he pulls go back to the gate again and keep going back until you can take three steps with him at heel, then release. Each time you go, make it more steps, you will find that he will soon cotton on that if he wants his freedom, he has to walk to heel first
Re: Problems with heel walking on lead Thank you for all your wonderfully helpful replies. Today we made some good progress. I took Bob round the block twice on the lead - only for about 10 mins. I rewarded him handsomely for not pulling. I didn't use the word HEEL at all, just a YES and a reward. To be honest he didn't really pull at all. It makes me believe that yesterday for example, there was just too much excitement for him. The walk today was quiet and we met about 3 people - and he nailed it. We are going to keep doing these little 10 minute walks on lead with him and vary the locations around town. Eventually our aim will be to walk through the town centre nicely.. but I won't attempt that just yet. We are taking him to the woods in a bit now and we won't put the lead on at all, he can just have a good old run. I don't want to undo the work I've just done today! Lou x
