Re: Project Puppy I love your distribution graphs, Julie! (Although, and I realise how much of a pendent this makes me sound, I think the 'number' should be on the y axis and the 'gundog skills' on the x axis. The Rubbish, Good, Very Good labels then work better i.e. small number of very good and very poor.) I think this is a fascinating topic and debate. Was Pippa's Rachel show line? I had a feeling she was?
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Merla link=topic=5734.msg73477#msg73477 date=1399206606] I love your distribution graphs, Julie! (Although, and I realise how much of a pendent this makes me sound, I think the 'number' should be on the y axis and the 'gundog skills' on the x axis. The Rubbish, Good, Very Good labels then work better i.e. small number of very good and very poor.) [/quote] ;D ;D ;D I noticed that as soon as I took the photos. Then thought "wonder if anyone will look closely enough at them to spot it?". 10/10 to you. I'll change them.
Re: Project Puppy And, and...if there were a tendency for working line dogs to have more expert gundog trainers, and show line dogs to have less than averagely good trainers (which is not at all a wild thing to suppose), the nurture effect would be even more extreme and my second chart would be an under demonstration of the potential effect of this nurture.
Re: Project Puppy Yes, it's why Project Puppy will be interesting as the show puppy will be trained to work by me in the same way as my current two working line girls so minimising trainer bias effects, and will act as its own control in the conformation vs condition aspect of showing. Now what we really need is to have a much bigger study group with many more show pups both shown and trained to work by people who have already trained working line dogs....volunteers anyone??
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Lochan link=topic=5734.msg73518#msg73518 date=1399216971] Yes, it's why Project Puppy will be interesting as the show puppy will be trained to work by me in the same way as my current two working line girls so minimising trainer bias effects, and will act as its own control in the conformation vs condition aspect of showing. Now what we really need is to have a much bigger study group with many more show pups both shown and trained to work by people who have already trained working line dogs....volunteers anyone?? [/quote] This is why it's so interesting. Graphs mean nothing nor do opinions. Doing it means everything.
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73521#msg73521 date=1399218548] Graphs mean nothing [/quote] Darn it. There goes the entirety of mathematics. All those people who thought they were onto something. ;D ;D ;D
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=JulieT link=topic=5734.msg73527#msg73527 date=1399219950] [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73521#msg73521 date=1399218548] Graphs mean nothing [/quote] Darn it. There goes the entirety of mathematics. All those people who thought they were onto something. ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Dogs can't count lol
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73533#msg73533 date=1399220985] Dogs can't count lol [/quote] True, very true. ;D
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=JulieT link=topic=5734.msg73554#msg73554 date=1399223179] [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73533#msg73533 date=1399220985] Dogs can't count lol [/quote] True, very true. ;D [/quote] .....or CAN they???........
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=5734.msg73558#msg73558 date=1399223319] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=5734.msg73554#msg73554 date=1399223179] [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5734.msg73533#msg73533 date=1399220985] Dogs can't count lol [/quote] True, very true. ;D [/quote] .....or CAN they???........ [/quote] Well, of course show line dogs can, don't know about those working ones. [JOKE - IT'S A JOKE! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D]
Re: Project Puppy Riley can definitely count to 2! He knows when he's short changed on his nightly biscuits ;D
Re: Project Puppy No no, maths is the way forward! I was so inspired by Julie's graph that when I read this..... [quote author=Lochan link=topic=5734.msg73518#msg73518 date=1399216971] Now what we really need is to have a much bigger study group with many more show pups both shown and trained to work by people who have already trained working line dogs....volunteers anyone?? [/quote] .......I had a disturbing moment when I started thinking about doing a 'T-test' (statistics thing) on the results if we could get enough participants, and how we'd assess gundog skills! Then I gave myself a metaphorical slap ;D ;D
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Merla link=topic=5734.msg73605#msg73605 date=1399226816] No no, maths is the way forward! I was so inspired by Julie's graph that when I read this..... [quote author=Lochan link=topic=5734.msg73518#msg73518 date=1399216971] Now what we really need is to have a much bigger study group with many more show pups both shown and trained to work by people who have already trained working line dogs....volunteers anyone?? [/quote] .......I had a disturbing moment when I started thinking about doing a 'T-test' (statistics thing) on the results if we could get enough participants, and how we'd assess gundog skills! Then I gave myself a metaphorical slap ;D ;D [/quote] Thank goodness.....not sure mods are allowed to administer slaps (She says as a closet geek 8) )
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=bbrown link=topic=5734.msg73616#msg73616 date=1399227536] Thank goodness.....not sure mods are allowed to administer slaps (She says as a closet geek 8) ) [/quote] yes, I've twigged there's quite a few lurking in the dark recesses of the forum!
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Merla link=topic=5734.msg73605#msg73605 date=1399226816] I was so inspired by Julie's graph [/quote] Aw...shucks. ;D ;D ;D But, Lochan is quite right. We need a bigger sample. I can't volunteer myself (although in my much more modest way, my 100% show pup will keep up his gundog lessons). Hmmm.....I'll have a think.
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Merla link=topic=5734.msg73477#msg73477 date=1399206606] I realise how much of a pendent this makes me sound, I think the 'number' should be on the y axis and the 'gundog skills' on the x axis. The Rubbish, Good, Very Good labels then work better i.e. small number of very good and very poor.) [/quote] I wrote that in a post too and then deleted it ;D
Re: Project Puppy [quote author=Oberon link=topic=5734.msg73720#msg73720 date=1399240530] [quote author=Merla link=topic=5734.msg73477#msg73477 date=1399206606] I realise how much of a pendent this makes me sound, I think the 'number' should be on the y axis and the 'gundog skills' on the x axis. The Rubbish, Good, Very Good labels then work better i.e. small number of very good and very poor.) [/quote] I wrote that in a post too and then deleted it ;D [/quote] Went over my head. Used to love maths, but true about the "Use it or Lose it" theory.
