Re: Pulling when on Lead Thank you to you both , The reason for the slip lead is the guy we spoke to believes that it helps with the dog understanding that when the slip lead is slack around the neck and the lead is loose that the dog learns quickly what the correct behaviour is . Were as with a collar it is reasonable tight around the dogs neck so it is harder for the dog to understand and the dog will just pull all the time when on a properly fitted collar , Jake knows what he should be doing but like all dogs the lamp posts and every other smell is a constant distraction and far more interesting than my wife and i at times . But this has been the biggest success with the fight against lead pulling he has responded so quickly and is much happier when on the Slip Lead , You just have to prepare for your walks taking longer , As was explained to us at the weekend you might go to the paper shop for Mondays paper but end coming back with Wednesdays . Mike
Re: Pulling when on Lead [quote author=Mike link=topic=3692.msg50326#msg50326 date=1390842862] Thank you to you both , The reason for the slip lead is the guy we spoke to believes that it helps with the dog understanding that when the slip lead is slack around the neck and the lead is loose that the dog learns quickly what the correct behaviour is . [/quote] Yes, that's true. It has a choke action when tight, and it's looser than a fixed collar when loose. My dog loves his slip lead - he clearly prefers it over a fixed collar. I'm in two minds though.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Hattie walks 100% better on a slip lead and infact has slipped it as she is so calm on it Julie why are you in two minds if Charlie prefers it and he walks to heel?
Re: Pulling when on Lead While Amy and I are stuck in the house I am planning to retrain her very sloppy heel/ loose lead, with our slip lead. Our lawn will most definitely worn into a muddy path!
Re: Pulling when on Lead [quote author=Naya link=topic=3692.msg50340#msg50340 date=1390848557] Well done Mike. The local meet sounds like great fun [/quote] My wife was really worried at first but in less than a minute one of the organisers said that upon meeting his dogs our Jake would be well behaved dog and he was , For over 2 hrs he was able to run free and play . We envisaged 30 different dogs in one field might be a recipe for disaster but they were all fine with responsible dog owners trainers and behaviourist's all their just to chat and offer each other friendly and helpful advice and share experiences . Mike
Re: Pulling when on Lead Yes still use her lead, I am doing this with Charlie and have seen a great improvement on and off lead.
Re: Pulling when on Lead I have swapped sides she walks on too. (Was right, but now left). I need a new command word too. What do you use?
Re: Pulling when on Lead [quote author=charlie link=topic=3692.msg50352#msg50352 date=1390849819] Hattie walks 100% better on a slip lead and infact has slipped it as she is so calm on it Julie why are you in two minds if Charlie prefers it and he walks to heel? [/quote] I dislike them because they have a choke action - I think that there is no difference between a rope choke lead, and a choke chain. So if Charlie makes a mistake, and stops walking at heel, and lunges towards a plastic bag or another dog, he is punished by the action of the choke. So I think that until Charlie is 100% trained, I shouldn't use slip leads - and if the lead happened to be up round his ears at the time (which I avoid at all costs, but have seen gundog trainers put them in this position) I believe that the pain inflicted would be very great. I do use slip leads, when and where Charlie is 100% reliable. For example, in Fowey going from the house to a remote garden, which he has done a thousand times and his lead walking is completely proofed. Also, if I'm honest, I think I slightly rebel against slip leads because they are traditional, and look good, and I think if we read some of the posts about puppies that pull being corrected after half an hour by a trainer using a choke chain, rather than a gundog trainer with slip lead, we might think differently about how appropriate that was. I suppose, I think the traditional thing, and the looking good thing, pull the wool over our eyes about slip leads. I have ordered one like David uses for Lady, with a stopper that will remove the choke action, and I'll feel better when I have that. But not as happy as a wide, flat collar. For preference, I would have Charlie in a back fastening harness, like Obi has. The woman who runs the rehabilitation hydro centre has horror stories about damage to dogs necks, backs, and trachea, from a lunge on anything but a harness. But there is no getting away from the fact that when Charlie gets to wear his slip lead, and it hangs very loose around his neck, it is clear that he much prefers this over a fixed collar. O. I wrote an essay. Seems I needed to say that.
Re: Pulling when on Lead I definitely see your point Julie, I wonder if any dog walks 100% to heel 100% of the time so as to avoid the choke action ??? What's the lead David uses? xx
Re: Pulling when on Lead David described it here: http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=4082.msg47996#msg47996 And it's available here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Co-60-inch-8-inch-Brown/dp/B008R87ZPU
Re: Pulling when on Lead Thanks for the link Julie. I know what you mean, I really don't know if I will ever be able to walk my Charlie on anything other than a front harness as he is such a large lad and I am a teeny weeny girl : plus he is much calmer on it
Re: Pulling when on Lead The Clix one is also very good. Trixie used to do one but the changed the joints and the stopper ring and were less sturdy. The Clix one is also available in medium and large (the latter being 170cm so a bit longer) - from Amazon but its worth shopping around, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clix-Premium-Slip-Lead-Medium/dp/B007ZYTDC0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1390858182&sr=8-3&keywords=clix+premium+slip+lead
Re: Pulling when on Lead I have a selection, but I am mostly a slip lead user. I have one with stopper and one without (nice purple ;D ) And I will use it in a figure 8 if I need more control - going down the steep muddy path to training, or if on the rare occasion we go into town. We don't do a lot of on lead walking and in the morning (in the dark) its usually a flat collar/5m extendilead so she gets a bit more freedom but I have control as there are usually a few cars that pass.
Re: Pulling when on Lead I do take on board some of the points you have made JulieT , When we walk Jake we try to anticipate when he is going to make a sudden movement towards a lampost or gatepost and make the turn before he has a chance to pull forward . We always try our very best to maintain a slack lead which is a key part to the training along with avoiding the risk of a choke as the idea is not to hurt the dog at all . The way which we were shown initially was done with 5 metre slip lead so their was a greatly reduced risk of the lead become tight and thus avoiding a choking action . If a dog is a real puller obviously the training with a slip lead will take a lot longer to master , We have only had Jake 9 weeks and he is a rescue Lab and i do not wish to add up the money we have spent on different collars harnesses and leads but also in that time we have tried our best to get him to walk to heel . So it could be a combination of things him learning to do what we ask of him etc , We know he will never walk to heel all the time and we dont expect him to either as he should be able to sniff and investigate certain things when walking on a lead the whole idea is is for him not to be a puller which now he almost is not . Mike
Re: Pulling when on Lead This is an interesting post! Why do so many Labradors pull on their leads? I know it will not help the OP, but IMO the dog should be taught to walk to heel before ever going on a lead. This can be taught in the backyard or garden from a very early age, I have started with Indie who is 11weeks.(2-3 mins twice a day) A treat in the left hand on the dogs nose which it will follow, a clicker can be used if you want when the dog is in the correct position C&T. When finally the lead is introduced the same method can be used. Many new owners, simply want to take their new pup for a walk on the lead too soon. The pup does not know any better than to pull, hence it is learning to pull before learning to walk alongside. I tried many collars,halti's and slip leads, but there is no substitute for the pup learning off the lead first. For older dogs if using a slip lead this should be positioned up as high as possible behind the ears, not slack on the dogs chest as this will cause injury to the dogs throat? This is hard to explain? If you press your hand against your throat it really hurts, but if you press your hand under your chin it does not. Try it! Also a dog will not pull with a slip lead behind the ears, just ensure that any pressure you apply is in an upward direction not backwards.
Re: Pulling when on Lead [quote author=Indy link=topic=3692.msg50539#msg50539 date=1390907116] For older dogs if using a slip lead this should be positioned up as high as possible behind the ears, not slack on the dogs chest as this will cause injury to the dogs throat? This is hard to explain? If you press your hand against your throat it really hurts, but if you press your hand under your chin it does not. Try it! Also a dog will not pull with a slip lead behind the ears, just ensure that any pressure you apply is in an upward direction not backwards. [/quote] Is this right? This is an honest question, not a challenge - just for the avoidance of doubt - it does seem an important question though. I was told by a pet dog trainer (who was a member of apdt and who pointed me to their policies, and information leaflets here: http://www.apdt.co.uk/) that pressure behind a dog's ears acts on the ends of its jaw bones, and any choke device used there is extremely painful. I read a leaflet from APDT which described the practice of putting choke chains (I know we are discussing a rope lead with a choke action) up behind the ears as "despicable". Which might be completely wrong and alarmist nonsense, of course, but I'd like to know what the right answer is. The exact text is at http://www.apdt.co.uk/about/half-check-collars and is: To make matters worse it has recently become fashionable again to fit collars which slip, tight up behind the dog’s ears. This disgusting practice seen by some as a ‘miracle’ which stops dogs from pulling, does so because when the lead tightens the collar causes extreme pain to the TMJ’s (hinges of the jaws) and the pressure points at the base of the skull.
