Re: Pulling when on Lead This is purely anecdotal I'm afraid but an experienced lady I met who trialled her dogs used to leave her leads low in general. When she want to be absolutely sure of the dog walking to heel she popped the lead up round its ears and tightened the stopper just enough to keep it there. The dog seemed more sensitive to any action on the lead in this position.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Julie, I can understand your concern in respect of half check collars and and slip leads. If fitted correctly a half check collar is no different to a buckle on collar, I stress if fitted correctly, with the 2 fingers space after the collar has slipped. So it cannot choke. And if a slip lead is used correctly it also will not harm the dog. You do not pull a slip lead just keep a steady pressure on it when the dog relax's you walk on.
Re: Pulling when on Lead I wouldn't dream of pulling on a slip lead, or any other lead. But after thinking about it hard, as a result of this hugely useful thread, they are not for me or my dog - and I'll be putting my slip lead in the bin.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Julie, Is it clear that you do not work your dog (not that is a problem), but as I work my dogs I could not do without slip leads. If you don't want yours pop it in the post LOL. But back to the serious point about dogs pulling, IMO owners put them on the lead much too soon. Using a harness or a halti is basically saying your have not trained the dog to walk by your side, go back to basics in the backyard or garden.
Re: Pulling when on Lead I put Riley in a harness sometimes as I've failed to train some of the kind people who look after him sometimes and they seem to manage to un-train him quite successfully!! I also use them if I want Riley to be able to wander but not be at total liberty or if I'm using a long line in training. They have their place in our house and I'd like to think I try quite hard to train my dog
Re: Pulling when on Lead I use a harness on Charlie and I feel I have tried really, really hard with training him to walk to heel, but as a rescue that came to us at 9 months with some bad habits its been a long road Like Barbara said, they have their place in our house and dog owners should not feel bad if they are still using them to HELP with training their dogs. Many vets, trainers and behaviourists recommend their use. Wouldn't it be great if all dogs walked 100% of the time to heel.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Lady will walk to heal on the lead but needs constant reminding. If left to her own devices she wanders gradually out in front untill all the slack is taken up the gently leans on the lead. Most annoying. If she's off lead, funnily enough she's pretty good at heal walking. So work that one out. On the way out for our morning walk we have to go up a very steep slope on the path up a railway embankment to the footpath over the line. It gets quite icy or snowy and slippery sometimes in the winter. A quick "get on" gets me a helping hand going up the slope when Lady puts her weight behind into the lead. 8) Sorry - shock horror! I KNOW I shouldn't let her do it before you all pile in! ;D
Re: Pulling when on Lead [quote author=Indy link=topic=3692.msg50593#msg50593 date=1390914985] Is it clear that you do not work your dog (not that is a problem) ... But back to the serious point about dogs pulling [/quote] I'm very sure your well trained working dogs, who don't pull, are very happy on slip leads. The point that generated the recent debate was about using choke devices on dogs that do pull to stop them pulling. I think this is a serious point, and I also think it's quite important that people reading threads for advice don't see an assertion, when there are other reasoned views, as the only, or whole, picture - so don't think opposing views should be dismissed. Hope you think that's reasonable.
Re: Pulling when on Lead I agree there are many ways of acheiving the same result, and all should not be dismissed. Please do not get me wrong, I do not avocate using choke devices. My dogs have pulled on their leads, but not any more. The younger dog was trained using the clicker from a pup and has always been on a slip lead. No pulling there. The older dog was put on a lead and collar at a young age and taken for walks with the family, after all thats why we have got a dog? It took many months of training to get her walk properly on the lead, without leading the way. In no way were any animals harmed in making this happen
Re: Pulling when on Lead I taught Harley to walk to heel in the garden and in the house, but as soon as we went out in the 'real world', this did not happen, too many new smells and distractions, so I now use a harness as I can't have her pull me due to my spinal injuries. I work really hard at teaching her to walk 'nicely', but it's not always that easy! The harness is essential in my house.
Re: Pulling when on Lead David I live near the Malvern Hills and when walking on them and it gets very steep, I taught all my dogs the command "mush, mush" which means "pull me up the hill" ;D Juliet T, I didn't use the Gencon to teach my dog to heel but to stop the sudden lunge which pulled my husband over. He walked to heel beautifully but would suddenly lunge with such power. Now that he is nearly 8 years old he is a perfect boy and I haven't used the Gencon for years.
Re: Pulling when on Lead [quote author=Indy link=topic=3692.msg50593#msg50593 date=1390914985] Using a harness or a halti is basically saying your have not trained the dog to walk by your side, go back to basics in the backyard or garden. [/quote] I know that you are just saying this to make a point but, being a pedant, I can't agree. I never use anything but a harness. My dog walks just fine on a loose lead because he's been trained to. Not 100% of the time, but close enough, and the small % of the time that he doesn't walk nicely would be something he did on a collar or slip lead too. A harness is not going to magically stop pulling and it's not a cheat's device. You still have to put the work in to teach nice walking. There is nothing special about a collar either. All the devices being discussed are ultimately designed to do one thing - to provide a sure way of stopping your dog from getting away from you. Which device you use to do that is a matter of choice. If you have a puller then switching devices can 'reset' the dog as the pulling may have been strongly associated with (learned with) the previous device. But that doesn't mean the new device is somehow a miracle cure or is a much better device (in my opinion). FWIW, I choose not to use a collar due to the risk of neck injury and I was encouraged in that view by my old vet, now retired. I wouldn't let anyone walk me with something around my neck.....necks are important. That is my opinion, anyway.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Wow just caught up with this thread and its really given me a lot to think about! When i first got murphy i was sure that i would never use a slip lead due to it hurting his neck, and at puppy class I insisted on him wearing a harness to stop him damaging his throat when lunging and pulling towards other dogs. Once he grew out of the harness (which he pulled on ridiculously), i had him on a clip on lead and flat collar (which he still pulls on) and then I decided I wanted to do some gun dog stuff (grade one) and i got him a slip lead. I waited until i saw the gundog trainer who showed me how to put it on properly before I started using it. He also showed me how to correct Murphy with it when he pulls. Unfortunately I am quite upset in realising through this thread that I have gone completely against what i started off thinking when we first got murphy and find myself using the sliplead to correct murphy quite often and he still continues to pull. After reading this thread i am definately going to stop using the slip lead until he can walk nicely with a loose lead. Infact i am even debating buying a new harness. I hate to think that I have been hurting him and possibly damaging his throat. Now hes 8 months old and 28kg his pulling on the lead is really hard and obviously needs to be sorted. He can walk to heel for a little bit but as soon as i give him a treat he then starts pulling again. Anyway i think i have just been thinking out loud, but I am definately putting away his slip lead for the time being x
Re: Pulling when on Lead A slip lead should never be used so that the throat is affected, it is quick downward pull on the back of the neck and a very quick release, more of a brief snatch and then if the lead is put on correctly it should slacken immediately.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Oh no! I promised I wouldn't ever post on the subject of slips leads again! But can't resist. Sorry. Just expresing a different point of view, which I hope is fair enough, I don't mean to be annoying! Lots of people - me included - think you should never jerk a lead, and certainly never using a choke device. If you are going to do this, I recommend you look at the advice in the link below under "collar correction" - this advice is correctly labelled as a method which uses punishment, and so you need to be happy to do that, it also says you must not use a choke device and contains warnings about possible damage to the dog's neck: http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/teaching-your-dog-not-pull-leash
Re: Pulling when on Lead I dont really mean throat but neck, its all the same area to me. I have been using it as a quick jerk and the lead is on correctly so it does slacken, the issue is unless we are completely alone down a lane or something, he pulls ALOT, and and before I was thinking that it wasnt a huge issue that he was pulling a lot (making the slip lead go tighter himself) but after reading all this I have decided that I dont want to use a slip lead until he is significantly better at walking on a loose lead.
Re: Pulling when on Lead Frankie we've got into pulling chats before...Dexter was around the same age when I was forced to admit we were into problem pulling, he was pulling far too hard and I needed to take action.my toils are all documented...I think I've posted a link to them in this thread if I looked back. At Murphy's age I had to stop everything and retrain and use a a gentle leader head collar if I couldn't drive Dexter to his walks .....I needed help from some of the equipment out there as I wasn't making progress with the stops starts,changing direction....I know now ( thanks to Julie's research that) I would have done if I had given it more time,but you get stuck between a rock and a hard place ....you want them to get their walks but you don't want to give them the opportunity to pull...that's were the from fastening harness and gentle leader helped me. It's a blummin on going thing though...Dexter was a nightmare for the first few minutes last night...I know he will have tested his sitter while I've been away and he's obviously been getting away with it.....we had to do some stop,starts,direction changes and u turns and he got the message pretty swiftly that the boss was back ;D but that wouldn't have responded to that 6 months ago.you can get this sorted many ways ,you just need to choose the way you are most comfortable and able with ,some ways are faster I know and tempting when you are getting hauled along like a boulder on the end of a rope but I think I've said this to you before I'd have struggled with those methods .i know I will never have the confidence be able to walk Dexter on a traditional slip lead....I can't see me ever having the surety he won't pull to a cat I've not seen or a sniff he's decides he wants and hurt himself... Good luck with sorting it out ,you will do it,if I can get some decent walking going on,anyone can! Xxx
Re: Pulling when on Lead Thanks Angela, I have a figure of 8 lead that I have used once and he spent the whole time trying to get it off his nose, is that similar to a gentle leader? Yes I do a lot of stop start change direction and he seems quite happy just going round in circles till I get dizzy! I think I made it worse by going through a stage of driving to where he walks and avoiding putting him on the lead so I didn't have to deal with it, but now i am getting in situations where I need and want to have him on the lead (the local market etc) and its almost impossible with him trying to pull my arm out of its socket! I wonder whether its worth using a non pulling aid such as figure of 8 lead for these situations and then do stop start change direction and proper training with him at other times. He can walk to heel for about 10 paces but as soon as you give him a treat he then legs it off again, and he seems to only be able to do it for a limited number of times in one walk! its so frustrating!!!! x
Re: Pulling when on Lead I'm not sure about the figure of 8 being the same?crikey I didn't even know that a gentle leader wasn't a halti I'm so clueless!i don't think driving to his walks will have made things worse,it's not getting the practice / training in that will slow your progress down.you can do the 2 side by side . It is worth using loose lead walking aids for sure.In one of Pippas articles she says to go 'cold turkey' on pulling and that stayed with me,Dexter was just not allowed to pull...if he couldn't be driven to his walk and let straight out of the car,he was walked on the gentle leader ....he didn't love this but he tolerated it...but around this I was probably doing 4 training sessions a day on loose lead walking....and I really did go back to basics ie in the house 1 step,2 steps etc then back to 3 steps in the back garden...build up,then back to 3 steps in the front garden.the transition to the pavement outside my house was too much for him so I put him on the car and drove him 2 minutes up the road and we moved to the golf club car park...it was really slow,progress but it has worked.i had the benefit of not working whilst I was trying to sort this out so I know I had time on my side but as long as you practice with Murphy as well as driving to,his walks you will crack it. I had the same problem of Dexter walking nicely having his click and treat and then pulling away again and I realised that I was saying ' OK' ( his release word) rather than Good or Good Boy as a marker ..so he thought once he'd had his treat he was released from walking at heel and he surged ahead so I had to really think about what I was doing and the impact it was having.its only recently that I've stopped counting steps.....you do realise one day though that you are counting to 200 ,rather than 10 so you know you are making progress .all I can say is this is not a quick process ,or it wasn't for us ,and like I say,Dexter will,always want to pull,he does require management and reminding on a lead walk...but having seen the improvement from how bad we were,I just hope one day I will have a dog who is happy to walk along side me quite affably.....the dogs I see in the park walking nicely I know for a fact have not had the time and attention I've given Dexter ....so I'm staying optimistic ;D
Re: Pulling when on Lead My vet gave me a good tip to stop dog pulling on lead and it works brilliantly! Just wave a thin stick, vertically like a pendulum in front of the dog"s nose as you walk along. Take away every now and again and just put back if dog moves in front again. Very effective.
