I do think working alongside strange dogs is a useful thing (expecting to say hello to, and play with, strange dogs is not a useful thing).
By the way though, there is no evidence that the socialisation window extends to 14 weeks, that's a recent invention not supported by studies, which is why I had my puppy in puppy classes at 8 weeks. Not lobbying you to go to puppy class, just sayin'.
Interesting, one of the areas in adolescent classes we worked on was "meet and greet" and developing a cue for "goodbye" I use this cue all the time, as not only does it help Benson, but also as a polite way of moving on, especially when the other owner wants to stop, say hello or pet Benson (a real dislike of mine)
Yes, I don't do that bit in pet dog classes - all the other owners think I'm mad (I don't know why, since my dog is usually the only one not pulling towards other dogs.... ). I expect Charlie to walk on by a strange dog without having the expectation to say hello. He needed no practice at saying hello to other dogs - that came very naturally to him! What he needed to learn was he didn't always get to say hello.
I couldn't go to puppy classes as they were on the one evening that my hubby couldn't take us and I was unable to drive due to shoulder surgery. Also where I live there isn't really a choice as I've only been able to find one local class. I was put off of going later as we were doing really well with our clicker training and when I met a lady and her puppy who asked me how I'd got Dexter trained to do what he was doing and I mentioned using the clicker, she said the trainer had told her not to use one. When I asked why, she didn't know. I would be interested in some adolescent classes but alas, I haven't found any of these yet. I don't just want to be going to a hall, I need scenarios set up in and outside. What's difficult here is that so many owners aren't really interested in training their dogs. I have one friend who is, all the others just let them do as they like. I don't meet up with them anymore apart from the friend who is training her dog. Dexter's very socialised but could do with meeting some calm trained dogs in a safe area.
We collected Juno from her breeder at 10.5 weeks and due to circumstances and our location she was not "socialised" until after her second set of vaccinations apart from walking down our drive and watching the world, well the occasional car or tractor, go past and a couple of trips to the local ferry port. Once she was fully vaccinated we were out and about much more and seeing all sorts of sights in town. she was around 15 weeks though before we went on our first dog walk where she could meet and greet other dogs. Apart from our recent blip, which our trainer thinks is more down to the move and change of environment, she's a pretty stable, easy going girl with nice manners with other dogs. I'm a great believer in socialisation but personally I think sometimes we worry too much about the "window" closing before we cover every possible eventuality. Guidance I received from my vet was that the "window" starts closing around 16 weeks but that a puppy is fully capable of coping with new situations as they get older its just how you deal with new situations that is important.
That is much more likely to be about Juno's breeding, and the socialisation she received before 8 weeks, than a window closing at 16 weeks (I agree, it probably doesn't). All respect to your vet (but, you know, vets often aren't really all that up on training....), but no-one has demonstrated that there is a critical period that lasts beyond 7 or 8 weeks. That's not to say ongoing socialisation isn't important, it's just maybe what you do at 12 weeks is no more important than what you do at 20 weeks....
Totally agree with the critical period to about 8 weeks of age which really emphasises the importance the work the breeder puts in to socialising the puppies together with the mum's nature. If mum growls when someone approaches her puppies, the puppies will learn to growl at people and highlights the difference between indoor home-reared v. kennel reared with little human contact. I just think at times we put too much pressure to "do things" by a certain age or else we have failed our puppy on some way. As we know a puppy doesn't suddenly stop learning and being able to deal with new situations because the calendar says they are 12 or 16 or 20 weeks old, early socialisation just makes it easier.
Yep, this is our issue too. Too many people I know want to catch up with the dogs so that Ella can play with their dog and they don't have too. When I walk Ella, on or off lead, I want to interact with her, practice bits and pieces and enjoy spending time with her. I'm happy for Ella to have an organised off lead play with a friend every now and then but I want it to be controlled. I like to ensure she recalls at various times, gives me her attention and follows a couple of basic cues before being released to play again. This ensures it doesn't just become an out of control nightmare. The trouble is that a lot of friends say "oh just let her play". I'm not sure if they've ever witnessed a completely out of control, wound up 10 month old Labrador before
I didn't take Poppy to puppy classes, and I would be very choosy about taking another pup to any puppy class. Quite honestly I don't think it's important for puppies to play a lot with other puppies. It's more important that they learn how to behave around adult dogs. Luckily for me there are lots of very well-socialized dogs around where we live, so she quickly became integrated into the doggy social world of our neighbourhood. Adolescent dog classes on the other hand are absolutely great, if they are done well. From around six months, our pups are becoming more independent and pushing the boundaries - a good class will be fun, will help them learn impulse control, and if you are working towards some kind of award or goal, is great to help bond you together. I started going with Poppy at eight months, and even now, with her nearly four years old, we go to some sort of training class almost every week!
Taking everyone's comments on board, namely around the type and quality of puppy classes, we had the opportunity to join an overflow class at Widgets farm. What a good choice! Only 4 pups in the class, which really worked well. We took a mat, and started working straight away rewarding for check ins . Pups weren't allowed to meet, not yet, but slowly were introduced through a sort of divider. We did a round robin around each others puppy beds so a gradual familiarity is being developed. All in all a great class,very calm and structured, full of informative and relevant titbits. Thoroughly enjoyed it! Bramble was a good girl, she did try and retrieve the stuffed dog, and knock over the vacuum cleaner... but all good. Tired Bramble...
@Beanwood your class sounds well managed with puppies learning from the very start. Small.numbers work much better as well. Look forward to hearing how Bramble gets on in her puppy class. Looks as if the first class wore her out
having had a few young dogs and been to various puppy classes I've found there is a lot of variation on the class structure. I now always go to a small not more that 6 pups in the class group. The pups are not allowed to play until there is a small 5 minute break. Puppies are allowed to play in a small usual 2 no more than 3 group. The trainer watches the pups during class and lets them play according to size and attitude If it gets to exciting and rough play is stopped. The puppies are closly supervised and watched for anything which is not appropriate. Nervous or shy pups can be moved from class to class as the trainer likes to make sure that pups suit each orther and don't get scared or intimidated. Rory was in a group of young labrador yobs it was a great thing for him. He had to start his puppy classes late due to illness, but luckily my other dogs did help to get him educated on doggie rules. I found it was good for him even if he did dwarf the other puppies. He now as an adult is very good with small dogs and puppies. I was very proud of him recently when he tailored his play for a tiny pup and was so gentle with it, the shy pup really liked him it was lovely to watch. I used this class before with Midge and it really did help her overcome some of her shyness. I would use this trainer again she is very good.
I also attended our first class this weekend and really enjoyed it. There were only 4 other dogs and they were only allowed to meet for 5 minutes or so in a controlled way, and more to practice getting them to come away from each other. We worked on individual things with 1:1 time with the teacher and it was great to practice commands we had done at home with other distractions. The main thing was it gave me loads more confidence in what I had been doing,mwill lots to practice at home. For me I feel it will be worth it.
I found them very useful. When Doug was young I went to one and it was so bad I left and didn't go again. There was too many dogs/pups and the trainers were more interested in having a chat than actually supervising. Found this one i use now and it was very good and benefical to my young dogs.
Good, positive, calm, structured puppy classes where there is no expectation of play are excellent. They teach the dogs to behave round other dogs and pups - which is what we all want .
