I have been using clicker training with our 4 month old pup and doing quite well with it. The problem is her enthusiasm for the treat. I'm trying to get her to take it gently from my hand or putting it (not throwing it) on the floor for her. The problem once she hears the click she is jumping up at the hand that has the treat, and if I didn't get my hand out of the way I think I would get a nasty injury from her sharp teeth. The problem is her desperation to get the treat. How do I control this behaviour?
Hi Sigurd, we've had similar problems with our very food motivated puppy. To combat this I've been practicing calm delivery. So for example, if he jumps up for a treat then I move my hand further away. I then start to move the treat towards him slowly and if he moves his head towards my hand then I move it further away. He only gets the treat if he stays where he is. If he mouths my hand too hard then I do my best not to let it go until he's relaxed the pressure and only then does he get the food. It seems to be working and I'm now trying to get him to stop using his teeth and 'lick' the food out of my hand. I've been doing this with his meals as we don't use a normal bowl at all. He'll get a small amount in a slow feeder or thrown into the garden then the rest is kept as treats. I think it's important to start working on this as a specific exercise first rather than incorporating it into existing training activity as you may poison the clicker with a slow delivery. Over time the dog's manners should extend to all treat delivery. ...I should also say that his breeder complimented him on taking food nicely a few weeks ago and I was bursting with pride
Have you worked on the sit command yet? Maybe make her sit or remain seated before she gets the treat? The other thing that’s working for us is keeping the treat kind of in our fingers but in fist (if that makes sense) so it’s not as easy for her to get to so easily....and your fingers are a little more protected. We’re still learning ourselves but these are just a few things we’ve been trying.
I could be wrong, and I’m really no expert, but I wonder if the efficiency of a clicker could also be a drawback for some dogs, I mean like they’re used because they are consistent, but the dog only knows one way to respond to every piece of training in the same outcome ie going mad for a piece of food. I’m sure this isn’t necessarily the case but it’s just a thought, especially in a pup. I bought a clicker before we picked up buddy but after watching a guy called Robert Cabral on YouTube I decided to try it his way, he isn’t against them at all, but his vocal commands are so simple yet sooooo effective, and at the end of the day you always have your voice with you. We picked buddy up at 8 weeks just the other day and he went crazy for treats, within 2 days he will sit, I can walk away showing him the treat, open handed, then walk right back up to him and he won’t take the treat until I say ‘yes’, and then takes it gently. I guess because of the controlled aspect of the training. Please don’t think I’m being smug, I’ve never owned a dog before and I’m absolutely amazed how clever they are, and how effective simple training can be. I’ve no doubt clickers are super effective, but just thought I’d throw an idea across.... whilst I can enjoy buddy behaving himself... for now ha ha!
I'm surprised at how quickly Susie has picked up on this! I no longer live in fear of losing a finger when training her. Not up to Chirag's puppy standard but getting there. Thanks for the link Pippa and video Chirag.
You have to first train a dog to behave around food - guides have already been posted. And if the dog is "going made for a piece of food" you've got that wrong. The food reinforces everything between the click and delivery (people often disagree with that statement, but it is true) - so it's important to be clear to the dog whether it is to move on the click or hold a position on a click. It's extremely simple to do both. Yep, marker words are fine - but your voice doesn't always sound the same. The sound of the clicker becomes extremely powerful for a clicker trained dog. Much more so than a marker word.
It is entirely possible to train with a marker word AND maintain the sound. It's just using a neutral tone of voice which can be learnt in much the same way that getting the timing right on the click can be learnt. Scientific studies also shows that there is no significant difference in a dog's performance whether trained for a task with a clicker, a marker word or just a reward.
I take the point about ensuring the voice stays the same. But in a family situation, it could confuse the dog if, to give an extreme example, the husband is a Glaswegian, the wife a Geordie, and the kids are brought up in Cornwall!
I read some of those - I thought they were pants. The one that was posted on here last time I visited was particularly pants. I think you only have to spend time with experienced clicker trainers, and time with people who are using marker words rather than clickers, to see the difference.
I was just spitballing, I know very little about dog training, I’m learning all the time and open to new suggestions. I’m still undecided if my approach is correct and may visit the use of a clicker. Though I have seen amazing work with voice. There are more constructive ways to explain than simply calling someone’s thoughts ‘pants’..... there’s that forum know it all I spoke about in another post saying how great I thought this forum was without them
I disagree. If it's pants call it pants and be done with the faffing around. Tiptoeing around, pretending to agree when you clearly don't, is just a big waste of time. By the way, the guy on YouTube, Robert Cabral, is what is known as a "balanced trainer". This article explains why the concept of using both punishment and reinforcement together is....oh dear....pants. https://www.thelabradorsite.com/punishment-in-dog-training/
Clickers seem a bit strange to me, like a remote control for your dog?. I know quite a few people with well trained dogs and have never seen a clicker in use. Saying that a dog trained for competition is different from a well behaved pet. I can see the benefit of a whistle when off lead due to distance.
Although not quite 4 months old I have found voice, clicker and whistle all more or less equally useful in training her (and her predecessor). Sometimes if a clicker is not to hand I can use my tongue to make a clicking noise; my wife can't whistle so she uses a mechanical one; and obviously our voices are different. The point is that they all work. It seems to me that you can use whatever is convenient at the time. Returning to my original question, I found that using Chirag's technique has worked ... and that didn't use any of the three noises. Just the gestures, which fits with what I have read elsewhere - dogs understand hand signals, and presumably body language, more that noises. Use what seems to work.
Here are some good videos for this one: Donna Hill: Emily Larlham: If this is happening between the click and the delivery of the treat, think about other ways you can deliver the treat. One of the great things about using a clicker, is you can throw the treat on the floor or roll it for the dog in many exercises - or drop it in front of them etc. There are often ways to avoid delivering treats directly to the mouth. This is not just 'getting around' the problem, because if the dog jumps at your hand and hurts it, and you release the treat after they've done that (which is what people often do, to stop the dog!), you are actually reinforcing that behaviour. You are actively teaching the dog that the way to get the treat, is to bite your hand. So using other treat deliveries (not to mouth) will help avoid the dog ever learning that in the first place. Meanwhile, on the occasions you do need to deliver directly to the mouth, be sure to use a flat hand so the dog has nothing to bite to get the treat to release OR to use a larger treat with some part of it sticking out for the dog to bite hold of. Alternatively, when people really struggle with this, you can use a tube of soft cheese - like Primula - and squirt a bit of that into their mouth after each click. When the puppy gets their adult teeth, which is usually from around 16 weeks, it simply won't hurt as much even if they do this with exactly the same force - their adult teeth are much blunter. Their puppy teeth are little needles. If you can weather puppyhood without making this worse or inadvertently teaching the dog to bite you hard to get the treat, in all likelihood by the time you get to 16 weeks it just won't be a problem, and you can deliver to the mouth just fine.
