Right, so this is a contradiction in Pippa's books that I've been wondering about for a while. If your dog runs off, then comes back (after a while), do you put them back on the lead so they don't run off again, or do your reward them for coming back by allowing them to run off? This seems to be a circular conundrum to me. Let me give you an example. My 10 month old has a pretty solid recall. She's also obsessed with balls. If there is a dog at the other end of the beach with a ball, she's off and there's nothing I can do about it. As long as the other dog owner is throwing the ball, she is gone to me. The situation usually ends when a) the other dog owner stops throwing and she comes back or b) she realises I am very far away, and runs back to "check in". At this point, if i don't grab her and put her back on the lead, she will just wheel around and race off again instantly! So what do i do? Thanks!
Hello and welcome to the forum. The best thing to do would be to teach her not to run off after the ball in the first place. This could start with you rolling a ball just a couple of centimetres in front of her and treating her for not going after it, and gradually build it up to the situation you describe. My boy is a real chaser but, by using this method, I've got to the point where I can throw a tennis ball and he waits for me to release him to chase it. In the meantime, if you're going anywhere there are balls being thrown, keep her on lead so she can't self-reward, and use it as a training opportunity, clicking and treating for any attention on you rather than the ball.
Thanks @snowbunny. This is what we're already doing But i was hoping to clear up the lead/no lead conundrum. These situations aways happen when I can't anticipate them - ie, the beach was clear, then someone comes down the dunes with a dog and a ball and she's off before I can leash her. We're working on distraction training; but when it goes wrong I'd like to know how to react? Leash her because freedom is a luxury or not leash her because she's a good girl and cam back (eventually)?
You put your dog back on lead, and don't train again in a place where there are balls being thrown until you have trained your dog not to run to them. If your dog is really obsessed by balls - and not just really, really keen on balls - it might not be possible to train her not to run to a ball being thrown by someone else, in which case you will have to put her on lead before she runs. For the rest of her life.
The fact she is running off in the first place is a real problem, because she's being reinforced for running off. So you need to ensure this doesn't happen, otherwise you're making it less and less likely you'll be able to fix the problem. What you do or don't do with the lead once she comes back is rather irrelevant. That being said, if you heavily reinforce the lead going on every time you put it on, then it won't be seen as so much of a punishment. Since my two were young pups, they got a tasty treat every time the lead was clipped on, which means that they trot up to me and sit to have their leads put on without being cued now, whenever I get it in my hand. It's not something I've gone out of my way to train, it's just a result of the fact they associate the lead with good things. By taking the lead on and off several times in a walk, and always rewarding when it goes on, it means it's less likely your dog will get negative associations with it. Make sure calling her back doesn't always result in the lead going on, but sometimes it does. Mix it up. Similarly, I always give my dogs treats when I let them off the lead. This makes it far more rewarding for them to stick around than it is to dash off, until they're released to go play. This is also true when I call them to me - rather than them doing the type of "fly-by" you describe, by giving them a variable number of treats, or maybe the chance to play a game, or do a bit of training, it means they stick around until they're released back again.
Hi - we are in the same boat as you and have been trying to proof our recall against balls and chuck-it throwers (she goes NUTS when she sees someone with one). Instead of calling her back if she takes off after a ball, we do not attempt to recall her at all, we walk over to her and leash up. If we catch her just before the runner and call her and we reward with her own ball (which is her highest reward). Then she gets a throw, then we leash and leave to prevent any more running towards another dog's ball.
Why not you be the person with the ball, so that she doesn't want to leave you! Re the lead, I think when a dog finally comes back you are over the top with reward, probably not put her on the lead at that moment, but quickly call her back in again before she has the chance to abscond, put on lead, reward, walk a small distance, let her off again. You have to be careful that the dog doesn't think, 'recall means lead' Sorry, just seen @QuinnM15 post who already said what I suggested
Yes, that was my thought. I just wasn't sure if I should put "recall means lead" above "running off means lead". Now I know I like @QuinnM15 's mid-ground response, also. She wants it so badly, why not let her have it - for a price? I'm in the process of "focus" training with her, and I let her go play with the object of her fascination; only if she gives me 2 seconds of eye contact first. It's going great. But balls are the exception - when she sees a ball, 500m away, she claps eyes on it, goes into a trance and is gone.
Putting a dog's lead on, doesn't need to mean the end of fun - in fact, it's a bit sad for all concerned if that is what it means. There are loads of games you can play with a dog on lead. Indeed, it's really useful to actively do this, so you are not plodding round with your dog on lead, neither of you enjoying lead time, and your dog wishing and hoping for the removal of the lead. Work on the lead coming off means the dog gets a game with you. And the lead going on means the dog gets a game with you. There is no reason why the dog can't be reinforced while on lead. Tuggie is one of the best games to play on lead.
If a long line, you can play the same games with a line on your dog as you can off lead - just be careful about the line not getting wrapped around your dog's legs etc. On lead, my puppy plays catch (the treat, the ball), tuggie, mousie (that's catching a bit of kibble that is flicked - like goalie played with a football but in miniature), fetch (yes, my dog fetches a ball that is still at my feet), jump to kiss, catch the nose/ears, chase the green monkey.....pretty endless, really.
Even heel work can be fun if you put your mind to it! I've been working on this recently. I'll make quick change of direction, suddenly back up, run then stop... just keeping the energy and rate of reinforcement high makes it a really fun game, and it's useful, too!
This is besides the point, but if you are in a densely dog populated area or park where all dogs are off lead, and should you decide to play catch with your dog, then isn't that ball fair game?
Hi, I had a similar situation with my Irish Red and White Setter. Katie was a rescue who was picked up roaming the streets near the M25! Each morning before I went to work we would head off over the fields. After a few minutes of doing some heel work I would get her to sit, take her lead off and leave her sitting whilst I we did some sit and stay work. I then released her to run, and run, and run. Within a few minutes of her running I would start to call her back. Initially it could take 45 minutes to get her back to me. As soon as she was with me I would put her on her lead, even if I had to catch her as she went to race past me! Once her lead was on we then walked for a few minutes before I took her lead off and once again I would release her to run and run and run. Time was an issue and there were days when as soon as she was back to me, I put her lead on and we went home. I am a great believer in using operant conditioning which is backed up by treats, praise, cuddle etcetera but making sure that my dogs do not become complacent that they will always get a treat, thus sharpening their desire to earn a reward. Thus the dilemma of associating recall with being on a lead is sorted and hopefully it will result in a win:win situation for you both. Best wishes Diana
My experience - having a ball obsessed dog, and I mean obsessed, not just very keen - is that people differ on this. Some people think 'so what?' and expect dogs to nick the balls of other dogs. Other people take serious objection to it. Personally, I do not want other dogs nicking my dog's ball, and I don't want my dog nicking balls belonging to other dogs. I never moan if another dog nicks my ball, but I'd really rather they didn't. I don't want a random dog charging up and getting in my way when I'm interacting with my dog playing with a ball and I don't want my dog to be that dog either. But the main reason is that if a dog gets into the habit of running to any ball it sees, and gets reinforced for doing that with a game with another dog or gets the ball, they keep doing it. If the dog is obsessed with balls, this can turn into a real problem - you can end up with a dog that will disrupt football and cricket games (those people really don't think their ball is 'fair game' for a dog), run to children playing with balls on a beach, annoy golfers, and so on...
Yes - I find it annoying here that dog parks (that are not really that large a space) are crowded with dogs and 1 or 2 people bring balls and get annoyed when their ball gets taken. There are also many ball/toy possessive dogs and I frequently see dogs in scuffles over balls. I think balls cause more problems than not in that setting. We only play fetch places that we are alone. We visit dog parks sometimes to give her a chance to run with other dogs, not to play ball. She will win a race to a ball every time and will give it back easily, but I prefer to bring out her own ball or leave if she's not listening to us because she's focused on another dog's ball.
To be honest it always surprises me how complicate H is when I put his lead back on. This may happen for various reasons, he's run off further than I like, sniffing another dog longer than I'm comport able with, wanting to swim when I want him dry, meeting another dog I don't feel I can trust, or sompky when our walk is over. Usually he'll come back with recall and I slip his lead on, or he's by my side, on occasion I have to catch him and slip his lead on. Hubby is sure that H thinks that when we put his lead on its us asking him to guide us.
