Hi I'm a bit confused about rewarding our recall. My dogs' recall is most definitely work in progress. However I'm pleased to report we do have progress. My problem is particularly with scout. If he runs off down to the bottom of the garden, usually because he thinks something interesting has passed, I can't see him. I blow my recall and 8/10 times he comes back, (That is a big improvement by the way :) but he only comes on the seond sometimes third lot of peeps. At the moment I'm C&T when he gets to me whether he comes on the first lot or third lot I'm just pleased he's come back but I know I should only start to reward when he comes for the first lot of peeps. Trouble is I'm scared if I do that I'll ruin what recall we have. Any advice would be great Thank you Jen
Re: Recall issues Hi Jen, I have always been told NEVER repeat your recall if he doesn't return to you first time you are teaching your dog to ignore you and you will poison your command and have to start again with a new one . I would just blow your recall whistle ONCE and wait, no verbal commands either and when your dog returns give him a jackpot treat and lots of praise. I wouldn't blow my recall if I couldn't see my dogs, I only blow it if I am sure I am going to get a return. I also use the gambling effect with Hattie & Charlie which is in Total Recall and that works well as they don't know whether they are getting a treat or a big juicy one and maybe nothing. Could you maybe use a training line so that he doesn't go out of sight and practise, practise, practise? Keep going Jen
Re: Recall issues Hmm, same as Helen, I would not repeat your recall whistle. I think you run the risk of doing more damage that way... if he comes back when he's ready and is still getting rewarded, he may well decide there is no need to respond to that first set. Ever. Unlike Helen though, I would go verbal if he doesn't respond to that first whistle. I have a high-pitched, nice and squeaky and full of excitement 'Puppy puppy puppeeeee' to attract attention if necessary - and if I start running in the opposite direction as well, she's there. I very rarely need to use it - in fact, it started because it was what I used to get her attention when I didn't want to risk the recall whistle... but I won't blow the whistle again. If he's out of sight and you don't think he'll come, I wouldn't risk a recall command. You don't want him to know you can't enforce it. I'd take yourself his way and start some new game / produce some wondrous toy, so he knows how much more interesting you are than whatever dull thing might have passed by out back. Clare
Re: Recall issues Thank you both. I know your right and I'm guilty of getting into a bad habit of peeping more than once. I'm just so pleased when it works. Ok I must be firm with myself and stick to one recall and try and get his attention another way if it doesn't work. Scout is now quite addicted to his ball if I say are you ready in an excited way he will look up from even an interesting smell to check if I'm going to throw. Problem is if he's legged it with the ball. : Thanks again Jen
Re: Recall issues I was just thinking if my whistle has been ignored and I've had to resort to verbal do I reward if he comes for the verbal? or only if it's instant for the verbal ? Or no reward because he should've come for the whistle.? ??? Oh its so complicated.
Re: Recall issues When we were starting out, the reward was for the recall - regardless of whether whistle was ignored, or how long it took. Coming back was a worthwhile thing to do. Big reward, huge fuss, and a fun game. I think that helps speed up the recall so it sounds like "oh wow, great, got to get over there".
Re: Recall issues On the same note (no pun intended) I do as you suggest, one 'recall whistle' if he comes ok, if not I won't re-whistle. I shout and run away, always works. His recall was always good and I only ran away maybe 3 or4 times in first 6 months but lately he's been a bit more lax, sometimes just looks round and sometimes trots slowly back. Maybe the pre-year teens?? My question is:- I have gone back to, if he's ignored the whistle or is slowly trotting back, run away to get a high speed chase then stop and whistle and encourage him in just like retraining a new puppy. Is this a viable way or not? Graham
Re: Recall issues Oh yes Clare forgot to say squeaky voice, clapping, running all work too hopefully : Hmm I don't think I would recall him again at that point Graham, with a slow recall I crouch down open my arms and encourage my dogs back and then you could throw a ball as a reward or lots of treats and praise of course. Of course I am by no means an expert infact quite the opposite :
Re: Recall issues [quote author=Widgeon link=topic=4237.msg50788#msg50788 date=1391001625] His recall was always good and I only ran away maybe 3 or4 times in first 6 months but lately he's been a bit more lax, sometimes just looks round and sometimes trots slowly back. Maybe the pre-year teens?? My question is:- I have gone back to, if he's ignored the whistle or is slowly trotting back, run away to get a high speed chase then stop and whistle and encourage him in just like retraining a new puppy. Is this a viable way or not? [/quote] There is a section in Total recall about if recall gets sloppy. It is Chapter 16 - it recommends to vary rewards and make sure you haven't fallen into boring patterns of behaviour. I took from it the need to do a proper review of the underlying possible causes, and reintroduce a range of things from about turn walks to jackpots, to really exciting recall games.
Re: Recall issues I'm going to re read that chapter thanks Julie for the reminder. Unlike with The Pet Gundog I haven't forgotten I've got total recall : but it's awhile since I read it. I've noticed most things boil down to the fact I'm just not exciting enough.
Re: Recall issues I'm playing devils advocat. I've been practising recall this afternoon. Scout has a good recall to two lots of 3 peeps so is there any reason my recall can't be 6 peeps ? ??? I tried it. 6 peeps straight back !
Re: Recall issues We have similar success 8/10 more so when out walking and he is on to the scent of the rabbits , We sometimes can go up to 6 peeps but in the house when nothing is exciting we use the recall whistle to get him to come to us if he is in another room . In this instance we dont use the dog whistle just a simple whistle with our lips and he comes to us straight away , The same goes for when he is let out in the garden last thing at night for a wee . May ask my wife for Total Recall book as a birthday present as i would like to ensure i am able to get him back every time . Mike
Re: Recall issues [quote author=Jen link=topic=4237.msg50811#msg50811 date=1391013206] I'm playing devils advocat. I've been practising recall this afternoon. Scout has a good recall to two lots of 3 peeps so is there any reason my recall can't be 6 peeps ? ??? I tried it. 6 peeps straight back ! [/quote] No reason at all why it can't be 6 peeps - so long as he doesn't then drive you to 9, 12, 15... ;D ;D ;D
Re: Recall issues Doesn't 6 peeps mean 'hunt' but only relevant if you are going to teach your dog that command?. I think it was in another thread about peeps ???
Re: Recall issues I don't think it matters what your recall is as long as you both know what it is, you're consistent and they come back With regards hunting peeps....it varies....I can't remember which thread it's in but I use pip peeeeep quite softly but I repeat that to encourage Riley to keep hunting. Some people don't use the whistle at all for hunting and say 'Hi-lost' or 'lost there' or 'lost' and there are probably others too
Re: Recall issues [quote author=Jen link=topic=4237.msg50811#msg50811 date=1391013206] I'm playing devils advocat. I've been practising recall this afternoon. Scout has a good recall to two lots of 3 peeps so is there any reason my recall can't be 6 peeps ? ??? I tried it. 6 peeps straight back ! [/quote] By repeating your recall cue of 3 peeps you've taught him that you only mean it if he hears 6 peeps. You effectively changed your cue. There is nothing wrong with now using 6 peeps from now - but do make sure you don't ever repeat that cue from this point on (so, 6 peeps only, not 12) If you cue a recall and get no response, say nothing, walk over to your dog and get him.
Re: Recall issues Thank you everybody. Six peeps it is but No more. I think it will be easier to use six peeps rather than try to retrain three seeing as how he's developing quite a good recall with six. I must try not to mess anything else up, some hope.
Re: Recall issues Oh, don't worry, we all mess up!! ;D I know I do!! Just go with the six. I use five, so what's one extra?
Re: Recall issues We started with 2. Changed to 4. Still ignores it if there is something wild to chase
Re: Recall issues dogs cant count,.....you have got to work and work at the recall ......no matter how many peeps u need to get your dog to come back to you,...hardest command i have ever used,......hey took a while but i got there whooo
