Re: Recall issues [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4237.msg50883#msg50883 date=1391033466] Just go with the six. I use five, so what's one extra? [/quote] A while ago, we had a discussion about a string of peeps for recall - along the lines of dogs not being able to distinguish between a number more than two or three. Well, having observed a great deal...and for rather complicated reasons studied how people learn morse code, I do think it's likely dogs recognise "noise patterns" of a number of peeps. They don't count, but in the same way as someone very experienced listening to morse, the "pattern" of the noise sounds different. I also wondered whether it is likely that the longer the string of peeps, the quicker you would expect them to respond to the beginning of the signal or "recognise" the whole sequence. That must be the case for a very long sequence, but whether or not it's the case for 5 or 6 no doubt depends on how rapidly you blow the peeps! Sorry, I realise not everyone will think this worth thinking about... :
Re: Recall issues [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4237.msg50896#msg50896 date=1391038959] Sorry, I realise not everyone will think this worth thinking about... : [/quote] I think we are a pretty curious bunch on here are are definitely interested in things like that. I agree with your line of thinking - and that the way we blow the first 5 peeps in a 6 peep sequence might be different to the way we blow 5 peeps in a 5 peep sequence. In that way, maybe a peep string is more like a whole word, than a series of added-together individual 'letters'.
Re: Recall issues [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4237.msg50899#msg50899 date=1391040172] In that way, maybe a peep string is more like a whole word, than a series of added-together individual 'letters'. [/quote] Exactly! Perfectly put - words (or peeps) sound different depending on where they are in a sequence - the sound also depends on what follows. That's why satnavs sound odd unless they have recorded every possible word in every possible sequence (which they don't). A string of 20 peeps for recall would be like shouting supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
Re: Recall issues [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4237.msg50830#msg50830 date=1391020755] No reason at all why it can't be 6 peeps - so long as he doesn't then drive you to 9, 12, 15... ;D ;D ;D [/quote] That's made me laugh,before you know it you could be whistling The Phantom score to get them back! 5 peeps for us....pretty much a guarantee....if he fails I don't do it again ........because if he fails he his sniffing in the cat bushes or he has found food.......guaranteed!!!if it's food,all rules are off , I run like a sprinter put him on his lead and get him away ( poisonings reported in nearby areas)if it's cat smells I walk nearer and verbally call him......again usually nothing....so I get a high value treat right under his nose and lure him out and put him on his lead......because the little monkey would just go straight back in!theres still no dummy or tennis ball that Dexter loves more than cat poo :-[ I've never repeated the whistle and I have friends that have got a bit frustrated in the early days as they were relying on it to get their dogs back but I stuck to my guns and wouldn't blow it again.....so they had to stomp,across the desert to get their dogs back ;D Dexter would come back to star jumps and me running in the other direction once I got his attention!
Re: Recall issues I remember that I changed my recall from 2 to 4 just on the basis of using one peep for a sit/stay. Since the recall wasn't that great with the 2 peeps or well practised I decided to switch. One peep and four should be easier distinguished. That was my theory anyway.
Re: Recall issues I think I've worked out scouts confusion with only three peeps or to be accurate how I've confused him. When I had the gundog trainer to them at 8 months she told me to peep continuously until the dog had reached me. At the time I did wonder about this as the gundog book I had said 3 peeps but she was telling me that much info I didn't question it. Also as I've mentioned before she wasn't the type to question more of a yes miss no miss type of teacher. When I think back I could kick myself for not questioning some of the things she did. Anyway I'm thinking for scout when I started only doing 3 peeps it wasn't enough to trigger the recall response because he'd been used to a lot of peeps. Whereas 6 peeps is enough to trigger and get him coming back before the peeps stop. I suppose a bit like Julie says its the sequence and the sound. Three isn't a long enough sequence for him to register recall. Maybe anyway
Re: Recall issues [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4237.msg50907#msg50907 date=1391065808] [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4237.msg50899#msg50899 date=1391040172] In that way, maybe a peep string is more like a whole word, than a series of added-together individual 'letters'. [/quote] Exactly! Perfectly put - words (or peeps) sound different depending on where they are in a sequence - the sound also depends on what follows. That's why satnavs sound odd unless they have recorded every possible word in every possible sequence (which they don't). [/quote] I think you are very definitely right. We use five peeps. Last week I very nearly had a full blown argument with my mother when I arrived back to find her hunting for my whistle, because she 'wanted to have a go'. She said she knew it was 5 peeps. I said that wasn't enough - she had to get the 5 peeps right. She knows now never, ever to play with the whistle. But a longer string of peeps has to be easier, because you have time to tune in and pick up on the call? Like when you call a company and they answer the phone with the company name first, followed by a 'Good Morning'? And the only bit you hear is the 'Good Morning', because even though you were expecting it, the first sounds are somehow lost??? Clare
Re: Recall issues Oh now I only use 2 peeps for recall In Pippa's Total Recall she says a string of 5 peeps is used if you are going to work your dog, if not it doesn't matter how many peeps you choose as long as you stick to it.
Re: Recall issues [quote author=ClareJ link=topic=4237.msg50922#msg50922 date=1391070988] We use five peeps. Last week I very nearly had a full blown argument with my mother when I arrived back to find her hunting for my whistle, because she 'wanted to have a go'. She said she knew it was 5 peeps. I said that wasn't enough - she had to get the 5 peeps right. She knows now never, ever to play with the whistle. But a longer string of peeps has to be easier, because you have time to tune in and pick up on the call? Like when you call a company and they answer the phone with the company name first, followed by a 'Good Morning'? And the only bit you hear is the 'Good Morning', because even though you were expecting it, the first sounds are somehow lost??? Clare [/quote] Yup. Peep-peep Peep-peep-peep (this would be I S in morse code) Is a very different pattern from Peep-peep-peep-peep-peep (this would be 5 morse) Gosh, got to go do some work!
Re: Recall issues Helen, don't worry, two peeps are fine, it's what I use too! The only thing that did make me wonder whether I should change, was that our Grade 3 assessor told me he uses six peeps, because IF it looks like the dog isn't responding after the first couple of peeps, you can up the ante and make the final peeps sound louder and more urgent! So pip pip pip PIP PIP PIP!!! Whereas with two pips, if the dog doesn't come back, you either have to repeat the command, or shout, or go get your dog. But on reflection, I stuck with the two pips. I reckoned, if it's not broken, don't try to fix it
Re: Recall issues Wow me and Karen's grade 3 assessor do the same ! ! ! ;D ;D I do do that as well, put more emphasis on the second lot of three than the first if they haven't started to respond. Thanks Karen. I thought I was doing it all wrong . Happy now
Re: Recall issues [quote author=Karen link=topic=4237.msg50954#msg50954 date=1391075679] Helen, don't worry, two peeps are fine, it's what I use too! The only thing that did make me wonder whether I should change, was that our Grade 3 assessor told me he uses six peeps, because IF it looks like the dog isn't responding after the first couple of peeps, you can up the ante and make the final peeps sound louder and more urgent! So pip pip pip PIP PIP PIP!!! Whereas with two pips, if the dog doesn't come back, you either have to repeat the command, or shout, or go get your dog. But on reflection, I stuck with the two pips. I reckoned, if it's not broken, don't try to fix it [/quote] Thanks very much Karen, I got worried with this thread as I thought I had made the wrong decision with my number of peeps : xx
Re: Recall issues The number doesn't actually matter Just be consistent. The response you get to the peeps is what matters
