After 2 weeks of no retrieving Charlie's desire is NO better, he was not excited to see a tennis ball, when it was thrown he ran after it picked it up and kept going and then dropped it. He did retrieve a couple of times but very half heartedly What on earth should or can we do about this ? You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Re: Retrieving NOT Oh no Do you use normal tennis balls or squeaky / funny faces? On the odd occasion Harley hasn't wanted to retrieve I get out the squeaky ball and off she goes. Hope this rectifies itself soon x
Re: Retrieving NOT If he ran after it and picked it up I would say his desire is there he just does not know what to do with it when he gets it. Did you recall him after he picked it up?
Re: Retrieving NOT [quote author=Tillydyes link=topic=5879.msg75838#msg75838 date=1399762520] If he ran after it and picked it up I would say his desire is there he just does not know what to do with it when he gets it. Did you recall him after he picked it up? [/quote] Yes we did. He does know what to do with it as we have spent months and months building on his retrieving. We gave him a break to see if that would help but it doesn't appear to have done so. Any suggestions would be great?
Re: Retrieving NOT That must've been a bit frustrating! What was he doing when you threw the ball? Was there a more interesting thing that had his attention? A few thoughts: - only throw the ball when you have his full attention - rev him up by showing excitement over the ball yourself - between now and your next try have the human family members play with the ball in the house without letting Charlie touch it. Do it every day and act like the ball is the most incredibly fun thing ever. In between, put the ball in a drawer. Once he seems to really want it it's ready to use on a retrieve.
Re: Retrieving NOT Like Oberon said maybe there was something more interesting for your dog to investigate but if you recalled him the instant he had the ball in his mouth and he ignored that then maybe recall needs some work. I'd try something completely different for him to retrieve like a rabbit skin dummy or a dummy covered with a smelly sock but something he has never seen before rather than tease him with the ball in the house. Failing that Pippas clicker retrieve might be something fun for you to try.
Re: Retrieving NOT Oh sorry Helen bet you were mega disappointed x You know Dexter isn't massively into retrieving but he has got a yellow soft squeaky ball that he will always go after ( Barbara's advice) probably similar to how Charlie was with his snake...is it worth taking a back step and using that again?also just by accident I have realised that Dexter will retreive a normal tennis ball with all the enthusiasm in the world if I'm in the soft sand dunes.....he seems to love running in it,the spray when he turns and sometimes as his reward for bringing it back i just give it back to him and he loves to try and dig it out of the soft sand.is there a particular place Charlie was more keen to retreive when you had him doing it? Also as I've got to know Dexter I realise he likes to 'hunt' rather than just retreive so if I give him a "find it' or our version of a memory retreive ( ie very easy ;D) he will always run out ......all of out retreives keep Dexter busy off lead when we are alone ,however if he sees a cat or another dog ,the retreive is forgotten by him.....so we are a lot better but I don't think I will ever have that look of pure focus some Labradors have when they see the tennis ball
Re: Retrieving NOT Sorry to hear this, Helen. You'll get there with him, I'm sure. I think there is a lot in Rachael's suggestion of building up the desire for a particular object. My Charlie clearly values his dummy over absolutely everything else but when I think about it, the dummy isn't really that interesting. He has much more interesting things (or did, anyway) - his footballs and rattle balls. So it must be how the dummy is treated by humans (as something very special).
Re: Retrieving NOT What Rachael said. That's how I got scotts desire up. He is now hooked. I dance about with the ball pretending to throw it making daft excited noises. : We also play piggy in the middle which I think I've mentioned before. It really gets them revved up. They get the ball when you miss catching it. Also don't throw it too far to begin with. With Scott I make excited noises etc then sometimes I throw it up high so he has to watch it come down and catches it rather than throwing it distance. Keeping it nearer will also reduce the chance of distraction. It's frustrating but he will get it again.
Re: Retrieving NOT Thanks everyone but we have done EVERYTHING that you have all suggested, dummy, ball, squeaky ball, snake, rabbit ball, you name it we've done it and kept the special thing hidden and only used when I choose etc. he is full on for a time and then that's it, his enviornment is just to stimulating for him to hold his attention for anything other than a few seconds. Nothing we can do about where we live it's rural. As you all know we have spent absolutely months, months and more months working building up the desire fo retrieving from teeny weeny steps starting inside and very gradually working our way outside. I can't think of anything else to do. Tillydyes, he didn't ignore the recall and we work endlessly every single day on recall as that has been Charlie's major issue as an absconder I really don't like clicker training and I don't think it would work. :'( :'(
Re: Retrieving NOT Well you can lead a horse to water and make it drink ;D I have had GSPs (German Shorthaired Pointers) and they are not that keen to retrieve, I had one who would NOT retrieve until she was nearly three years old. I would throw the retrieve, she would look at it and say 'nope', I would say 'well we will sit here all day until you get it' and she would say 'OK, we will sit here all day" :'( This dog won the second working test she went into which contained retrieving! The way I got around it was to put a dummy, (you could use anything) on the floor at feeding time, offered her the dish, but did not give it to her until she picked up the dummy, if she wouldn't pick the dummy, I just put the bowl back on the side, offered again, no picking up of dummy, food back on the side again. I used no words and smiled all the time, no crossness. You would be surprised at how quickly they work out what they have to do to get their dinner. This then instills the habit of picking up dummy and giving it to you. You have a dog, I think, who is part Lab and part GSP, so you have the hunting part of the GSP in the mix which is probably the absconder part, not really absconding but hunting much further away then you feel happy with and as you have said could be away for an hour which is very, very scary and not what anyone would want. Perhaps you should now incorporate a 'turn' whistle, let him hunt a distance away from you, you decide what you feel happy with, then whistle 'two pips' which means turn back to me, then send him on his way to the other side, or forward if you are near a hedge. You can actually face a hedge so that he has no alternative but to run from side to side up and down the hedge. I have a friend (dog trainer) who has a German Shepherd and she keeps her with her by tossing pieces of kibble, bits of sausage, liver etc into the long grass while she walks, so that the dog is forever hunting for her food, she only tosses one piece at a time until the dog has found it, all this done while we are walking. This may be a way you can contain the hunting. I feel that Charlie does need some off lead running and in a way you are battling with that, but as you say, no safe area, though he did have a good blast with your husband and son which will help tremendously. One friend who had a spaniel who would not retrieve (a rescue who jumped into the lake at training and would not come out, hunting the ducks and getting lower and lower as she got tireder, we thought she was going to drown, so a boat had to be got to rescue her) and was a problem like Charlie and an absconder, rubbed a cheesy biscuit over the dummy and got over it that way.
Re: Retrieving NOT Helen, I have only been dipping in and out of your retrieving problems having an unenthusiastic retriever myself. Lilly is now keen to retrieve....but only on the beach. This started when we were looking after ball mad Georgie and a bit of competition sharpened the inclination. So I was wondering if Hattie could be of use here. Or another dog? The other aspect I was actually discussing with Soph yesterday. Is Lilly less distracted by OTHER things on the beach? Yes the odd seagull.....but our beach was pristine (literally) after the spring tide and I think that helped too - less wildlife. So for us, the place and lack of distraction was important. I'm not sure how that could help if at all, just my thoughts on our own experiences. x
Re: Retrieving NOT Charlie's fragile retrieve desire was the main reason I was concerned about you attempting to 'steady' him. But, you got him interested in retrieving before, and you can do it again. Either by playing on his love of chasing - lots of naughty running in when he is very excited and full of beans. Or by the trained retrieve. As Stacia has said, any dog can be taught to retrieve using rewards, and if you don't like clickers, don't use one. But the process is the same. The clicker just makes it a bit easier for the dog to work out when and for what he is being rewarded. You may have to go back to retrieving where there are no other distractions again for a while. Very frustrating, but you should be able to build up his desire again in stages. Don't forget, with hunting dogs, hunting should be contingent on retrieving. If you don't retrieve, you don't get to hunt. So always do the retrieves at the start of an exercise session, whilst the dog is fresh (and on a training line if needs be, to stop him running off to hunt)
Re: Retrieving NOT Whilst dusting and after my previous post, I was thinking about Charlie On another gundog forum, spaniels who live for hunting and will blink retrieves, have their hunting stopped and the only freedom to run they get is to retrieve until this behaviour is well bedded in and I see that Pippa has said the same thing ;D
Re: Retrieving NOT [quote author=Stacia link=topic=5879.msg75938#msg75938 date=1399798871] I have a friend (dog trainer) who has a German Shepherd and she keeps her with her by tossing pieces of kibble, bits of sausage, liver etc into the long grass while she walks, so that the dog is forever hunting for her food, she only tosses one piece at a time until the dog has found it, all this done while we are walking. This may be a way you can contain the hunting. [/quote] Thankyou Stacia,in helping Helen you have inadvertently helped me.....that could give me a portion of time in my walks when Dexter could be off the lead and I could give MY brain a breather,never mind his! ;D
Re: Retrieving NOT This must feel so frustrating for you after all your hard work, but as others have said you have done it before. What is happening now when Charlie is off lead - is he still running off?
Re: Retrieving NOT [quote author=editor link=topic=5879.msg75954#msg75954 date=1399800207] Charlie's fragile retrieve desire was the main reason I was concerned about you attempting to 'steady' him. But, you got him interested in retrieving before, and you can do it again. Either by playing on his love of chasing - lots of naughty running in when he is very excited and full of beans. Or by the trained retrieve. As Stacia has said, any dog can be taught to retrieve using rewards, and if you don't like clickers, don't use one. But the process is the same. The clicker just makes it a bit easier for the dog to work out when and for what he is being rewarded. You may have to go back to retrieving where there are no other distractions again for a while. Very frustrating, but you should be able to build up his desire again in stages. Don't forget, with hunting dogs, hunting should be contingent on retrieving. If you don't retrieve, you don't get to hunt. So always do the retrieves at the start of an exercise session, whilst the dog is fresh (and on a training line if needs be, to stop him running off to hunt) [/quote] I wasn't aware I was steadying him, now I am totally confused and really don't think I can do this all over again. Thanks everyone for your advice but I have reached saturation point - sorry :'(
Re: Retrieving NOT Don't despair! Steadying just means making him wait for a command before allowing him to retrieve - if that is not what you were doing, then that's fine. Have a think about the other things that might be dampening his retrieve desire e.g. overwhelming distractions, allowing him to hunt first etc. If you have been 'steadying' Charlie, then all you probably need to do is stop Does that make sense?
