Re: Retrieving NOT Helen I'm guessing you are at the end of your tether. I know what that feels like but remember WE KEEP PLODDING. The wobbles mean we've made progress to be able to see them (does that make sense? ???). I think Stacia's suggestion [quote author=Stacia link=topic=5879.msg75938#msg75938 date=1399798871] I have a friend (dog trainer) who has a German Shepherd and she keeps her with her by tossing pieces of kibble, bits of sausage, liver etc into the long grass while she walks, so that the dog is forever hunting for her food, she only tosses one piece at a time until the dog has found it, all this done while we are walking. This may be a way you can contain the hunting. [/quote] is a really good idea to try with Charlie. I've said before about working the hunter in him and this seems an easy way to let him use that instinct. If your fed up with retrieving not working then leave it for awhile and try something different. You could give this a go inside and on your drive before the big wide world. I think it sounds like fun and he'd enjoy it. You could do the same thing with the ball inside. Scent it with cream cheese or something and hide it then tell him to hunt. Teach him a hunt command. If he has to hunt the ball out I bet it quickly becomes his addiction. Then try retrieving it again. I know you have a lot on your plate and starting something new might seem daunting and time consuming but its less frustrating than re doing stuff over and over and you might find it fun.
Re: Retrieving NOT Sorry, coming late to this, Helen, but I don't have anything useful to add as I'm just starting my attempts at developing a "retrieve" (ie fetch, in our case) desire in Simba. I've not been all that successful, either, to be honest, but for me it's early days yet, so to put myself in your shoes and feel like it's not working after months of work would be SO discouraging. I really feel for you. :'( I know the whole reason you are doing this is to be able to take Charlie off-lead, with Hattie, so that you and David can go on walks together without worrying that Charlie will run off, right? So maybe the suggestion that Stacia gave about the kibble in the grass might help? I know I'm going to try that the next time I'm out at the dog park with Simba (and there's no one else around). I think for Simba that might work quite well, as he is very sniff and food oriented, maybe it would help with Charlie too? Anyhow, sending hugs and a nice cuppa of your favourite beverage to you....try not to be too discouraged, I know it's hard, but think of the success you have had with Charlie. You've taken him a long ways! This dog is always going to challenge you in some form or another, I have a feeling. But really, that's true for all of us in one way or another, as they are all living creatures with minds of their own and a whole world open to them that we hardly understand, in a lot if ways. Communicating with them and building a partnership can be so very difficult, but so very rewarding when it clicks....even if those "clicks" are few and far between, sometimes. Take care, Helen, we are with you in this.
Re: Retrieving NOT Hi Helen, it is so frustrating when everything you try just doesn't seem to be getting results. Without knowing your Charlie's history or seeing him in action I don't think I can offer anything better than the advice you've been getting. Perhaps you're just 'stuck' (happens to the best of us) and seeking out a trainer or just someone else who knows what they're doing might help? Seeing the dog in action and what you're doing by someone else I think would help you get past this blip. Don't give up!
Re: Retrieving NOT [quote author=editor link=topic=5879.msg75996#msg75996 date=1399809548] Don't despair! Steadying just means making him wait for a command before allowing him to retrieve - if that is not what you were doing, then that's fine. Have a think about the other things that might be dampening his retrieve desire e.g. overwhelming distractions, allowing him to hunt first etc. If you have been 'steadying' Charlie, then all you probably need to do is stop Does that make sense? [/quote] Too late I am in despair . I have only been steadying him for blind retrieves which he loved but then he got bored of them, under advisement I stopped all retrieving for 2 weeks. Could that seriously have put him off retrieving when all I was trying to do was make it more interesting for him? As for distractions we just tried on his normal walk so his is still on a training line and not allowed to hunt. I appreciate all the advise but there is so much of it I then feel bogged down in the technicalities when really all I want is 'simple' ball throwing with my dog to keep him from absconding. Gordon, I have been to 3 trainers non of which offered any help at all and 2 of them were negative trainers so I have had a gut full of "trainers" and don't trust any of them, but thanks for taking the time to offer me advise, I appreciate it.
Re: Retrieving NOT No Helen, a break from retrieving often revives flagging desire. But how effective the break is, would depend on just how much the desire was dented before the break was initiated.
Re: Retrieving NOT [quote author=editor link=topic=5879.msg76229#msg76229 date=1399838591] No Helen, a break from retrieving often revives flagging desire. But how effective the break is, would depend on just how much the desire was dented before the break was initiated. [/quote] So I really need to start retrieving from scratch?
Re: Retrieving NOT Have you got one of those tennis ball wangers? You can get long ones and much easier to handle short ones. Just go out with one of those and Charlie and wang tennis balls, take the pressure off you both ;D
Re: Retrieving NOT Not from scratch Helen he hasn't forgotten he just needs it to be exciting again. I know that's the hard bit. :-\
Re: Retrieving NOT You don't need to start from scratch, Helen He knows how to do it. But the fun has diminished for him. When I do retrieves on a walk I don't make Obi wait. I get his attention and then I throw. No waiting, no steadiness. And I always stop while he still wants more. Dogs enjoy training when you're having a good time (even if you're faking it), when you keep it short and sweet and varied and not too frequent. For you, what are the fun and interesting elements of training and being with Charlie?
Re: Retrieving NOT [quote author=Oberon link=topic=5879.msg76249#msg76249 date=1399839556] You don't need to start from scratch, Helen He knows how to do it. But the fun has diminished for him. When I do retrieves on a walk I don't make Obi wait. I get his attention and then I throw. No waiting, no steadiness. And I always stop while he still wants more. Dogs enjoy training when you're having a good time (even if you're faking it), when you keep it short and sweet and varied and not too frequent. For you, what are the fun and interesting elements of training and being with Charlie? [/quote] Apart from the blind retrieves which I deeply regret starting, we have never ever made Charlie wait for a retrieve, we always get his attention make it exciting and stop while he is still keen. I am sorry to say there really is no fun or having a good time for us training Charlie any more because it's been a total uphill struggle for 2 1/2 years and still not an easy situation for our family. I never in a million years believed taking on a rescue dog could ever be this stressful or difficult :'( We love him and that's all that keeps us going and 4 children that would never forgive us if we gave up on him.
Re: Retrieving NOT I don't think you should regret the blind retrieves, Helen. He WAS enjoying it, and so were you! Wait another two weeks and then try again, see if he feels like it again then. No pressure, just if he wants to.
Re: Retrieving NOT Forget about the technical stuff. Go chuck a ball if he fetches it great big treats if he doesn't don't worry. From the sound of it you need the fun putting back in it never mind Charlie. Just keep loving him that's all that matters. By you stopping worrying about that ball coming back (easy said I know) Charlie might decide he better had. Stranger things have happened.
Re: Retrieving NOT I really wish it was as easy as chucking a ball and Charlie bringing it back and everyone having a fun time but it really, really isn't. I wish I could explain how extremely difficult he is not being able to transfer training even after the teeny steps we have taken it just doesn't seem to happen and I am frightened he will run off if we can't keep him busy.
Re: Retrieving NOT Maybe it is the 'keeping him busy' which is taking his desire to retrieve away? Just another thought, have him very hungry when you go out, get a little pill bottle, put something delicious in it, hide it long grass or just in bushes, get him to find it, bring it to you, open it and treat. Rinse and repeat. First of all you would have to do it in the house so that he knows there is a treat in there. This should take the pressure off you and him as he should want to bring you back the bottle and he will be doing his own learning
Re: Retrieving NOT Helen....how is he with Hattie? Does her steadiness not keep him in tow on a walk. I know that makes a difference for Lilly.
Re: Retrieving NOT I was wondering the same as Jacqui. Have you tried Charlie on his long line with Hattie off lead. If Hattie stays near you and Charlie likes to stay near Hattie it might work really well. On paper it sounds a good solution. Also I was wondering does Hattie retrieve ? Im guessing so being a labradoodle. What about a bit of friendly competition? You could try on your drive or garden first. Throw for Hattie with Charlie watching he might just be tempted to join in then when he's running about give him his own ball. I know you are probably feeling bogged down with suggestions but try using Hattie as she is so well behaved and Charlie is attached to her. She is a resource use it.
