So I collected my puppy on Wednesday. At the time I commented on where mum was and he said he had separated her a couple of weeks before so she would stop feeding them. I had seen mum twice before both during pregnancy and when the pups were 4 weeks. I thought it was odd to separate her form them at 6 weeks but I trusted him. When he brought my puppy out she was scratching a lot which again I commented on. He said the puppies been play fighting and scratching each other and so she as probably scratching a scab. I asked about flea treatment and he said he had used frontline a couple off days before. Anyway if you've read my other post you will know she has scratched constantly since arriving. So badly that despite being unwell today I took her to the vets rather than wait until tomorrow's scheduled vaccination appointment. The vet said actually she has a bacterial infection of her skin all over her body (which is why she smells yeasty) and she has scratched herself raw in places. She also has a parasite but the vet said she had never seen this particular parasite/mite before and would need to examine them further under the microscope. She said at this point she doesn't know which is the chicken and which is the egg... Is the parasite causing the scratching which has now got infected or has she got an underlying skin condition which is causing her to scratch and which has now got infected? She did say from the state of her skin this hadn't just developed in the last few days and she asked when the breeders vet last saw/checked the pups as this should have been picked up prior to sale. The contract said they had been seen by a vet prior to sale but now I'm wondering... She gave her a steroid injection to try and lessen the inflammation and therefore scratching. She has also gave her an anti fungal/antibacterial shampoo to use every two days and also a broad spectrum parasite treatment. She has given her flea and worming tablets as well. It came to over £120 worth of treatment. She said she would need to be checked again in a week to see if she has responded. Unfortunately the vet says she is not able to start any of her vaccinations until she is well. When I collected Sammy the breeder did say her tummy button sticks out and it could be a umbilical hernia but it's nothing and you just press it back in. And again no mention of it on the contract in the defects but. Because he just told me right as I was going I didn't have time to think or research what it actually meant. I spoke to the vet and she said it definitely is a hernia and he should have told me before hand because some can be congenital and it's not recommended to breed from them. She said it would need surgery to repair, either at the same time if she is spayed, or possibly sooner depending on how large it gets as she grows. So I'm really struggling with do I contact the breeder and ask why she wasn't treated, and why he didn't tell me about the hernia? Do I just put up with it and say it is what it is and hope that it's not an underlying skin condition and the hernia doesn't grow and not expect to breed from her? or do I take her back? That would be heartbreaking but I have paid for and do expect from a kennel club assured breeder that the puppy is healthy and that he would notified me in advance of anything like hernias. The breeder has been good with communication and very helpful during the process. I did think he cuts corners with costs on food and he doesn't insure his own dogs and they are kept outside. But they are working dogs. The utility room where they were kept wasn't that clean but he said it was because they had just had wheetabjx everywhere. When I visited and selected at 4 weeks I didn't look for hernias because I didn't really know about it, but surely he should have told me then or before the sale? And surely he should have noticed he skin infection and got it treated? I'm so confused about what to do. My head says take her back because this is a dog for life. But my heart says how do I take her back?
I feel for you! This is a really hard decision, and I'm not sure I am the best person to advise you. If the breeder has been somewhat lackadaisical with the truth up to this point can you trust her with things like health scores for other inherited diseases? Having a neglected skin disease does not sound like a good start for this pup, nor does the separation from mum. That is not healthy for your pup in other ways. No one can make this decision for you but I'' afraid I would be leaning towards taking her back. In the end this is your family and your pocketbook which has to count for something. I know you have become attached to the pup but you might be setting yourself for lots of heartbreak in many ways. That being said, you are a caring person and a good place for this pup to be. Is there any way to talk to any of the other owners of your pup's siblings? Or others who have bought from previous litters?
Thank you Lisa. Yes this is where I'm leaning to but worried for the puppy but also if I'm just being petty and not being wiling to treat her myself. But it's not that. It's that he wasn't transparent about it. And fundamentally I paid to have a healthy puppy and expected illnesses to be treated and conditions to be disclosed. No I have no way to speak to other purchasers from the litter. I tend to end up blaming myself - i should have read the contract more carefully and asked for his vets report of the puppies to show they had been taken. And physically checked her over better. And I don't think there was any malice on his part but I just don't understand why he didn't check them before handing them over. And it's like he knew how important this was for me and how I contacted him back on September and have been waiting ever since and so why didn't he say she is sick and I need to get her treated before I give her to you.
Wow, this is so tough. I'm sorry to say, but the breeder does not sound ethical. There are so many bells ringing here - starting with claiming to have used Frontline on puppies to lying to you about the hernia. He has either purposely taken you for a ride or simply doesn't care much about his puppies (or his own dogs from the sounds of things). Either is not too pleasant to think about. Only you can decide if you want to keep the puppy and what is best for you and your family. If you bring her back, she will undoubtedly get sold to someone else. You have to think the different scenarios through (bring her back and having to say goodbye and the uncertainty of what will happen to her or keeping her and possibly be dealing with some health/genetic issues you didn't want). Did the vet say anything about how she looked otherwise? The skin conditions and hernia are pretty easily fixable - albeit with money - and not life-threatening. Such a tough choice - I would be pretty distraught in your position. I'm sorry you find yourself here. If you DO decide to keep her, then I'd contact the breeder immediately and tell him precisely what is going on. By written form if possible (email) so you have a trail of the conversation. I'd ask for a refund of the cost of the skin treatment problem and of the estimated cost of the hernia operation. These are both conditions that he knew about before you took her home and yet wilfully omitted from the contract. As I would expect this breeder at this point to simply laugh in your face and not take any action (he's got your money after all), I'd then report him to the kennel club, including forwarding on your contract, vet reports and your email conversations with the breeder. I have no idea if they would take action, but at least there will be a record about this breeder that may help other people like yourself in the future. Again, sorry to hear you are faced with this and hope you are able to make the decision that is best for you and your family.
What a horrible situation. Emily's suggestions to contact the breeder for compensation to cover the treatment and informing the Kennel Club sound a good compromise if you decide to keep her. It's a really difficult decision, but do keep in touch.
I agree with Emily - I would contact the breeder and tell them what your vet has said. If they don't do anything then contact the Kennel Club.
Emily is someone here that speaks from the heart as well as the head. Only thing I would add would be to tell the breeder the only way you're keeping the pup is if they compensate for the issues, or legal action will follow
This is an awful predicament to be in. I really, really feel for you. If you are considering keeping this pup (and I fully understand why you would want too) think about insurance, as any skin conditions may be an excluded condition and they can be expensive. I would insist on seeing copies of the health records of the parents, and also contact their vet to check for any episodes of allergies in the sire/dam. I agree with Emily, these current health issues sound fixable, although requiring treatment at some cost, which should be reimbursed by the breeder. I would want to know a bit more about the parents health status. I understand this may not be intentional neglect, however that is no excuse. I am personally a bit wary by some reports on how working dogs are reared and looked after, and would only buy a puppy from a kennel/breeder that rears them inside as family dogs.
This is really difficult. I'd say whatever you do, do it quickly. Personally, I think once I had a pup home, then it would be mine and I'd just get on with it, even if I felt like beating up a breeder that hadn't done the right thing. If I had doubts about the breeder, I'd write a report to the Kennel Club, but then put it out of my mind and concentrate on the puppy. Otherwise, take the pup back right away without anymore debate about fault or what was or wasn't done etc. It seems the worse thing would be to keep the puppy, fail to bond with it (because you are thinking whether or not to take it back) and enter into a long dispute with the breeder in the meantime. Don't do this. Resolve it one way or another as soon as possible for the puppy's sake.
Nothing more to add but just want to say how sorry I am you're in this situation. I think Somatic is right, the breeder would have known and was responsible. You can tell from your story something was not right with his set up. The Kennel Club should be informed.
What an awful situation to be in. When Stanley came home he had a severe water infection. I contacted the breeder to tell him - mainly cos he had other pups still and I was concerned they all might have it. My response wasn't exactly positive - he didn't have it with him. Well I'm pretty sure in few hours he was with me he didn't develop this infection but OK. But I just paid for the antibiotics and carried on - by this time I felt it was my responsibility. I'd probably be the same as Julie, I wouldn't be happy but I'd be so worried about where else they would go, I'd just try and deal with it. Hope you get a good outcome for you both
I'm really sorry to hear of your predicament. If it's any consolation, I found myself in a similar situation when I took my new puppy home some six weeks ago. The breeder did inform me he did have mild Juvenile Dermatitis which had been treated by her vet (she spoke to me via the telephone a couple of times). It was a six hour round trip to pick him up, and I must admit, I paid the remainder of the price (she took a deposit before they were born) without querying his condition...although it was significantly worse than the photographs indicated. Several days after I bought him home, I began worrying as it wasn't clearing up as quickly as I'd expected, so I contacted her - she very quickly offered me a refund of over half the purchase price (he was priced at the upper end of the purebred pedigree pet spectrum). Naturally I accepted, and then took him to my vet. It was actually Juvenile Cellulitis (aka Puppy Strangles) - a much more potentially serious condition than Juvenile Dermatitis. My vet gave me additional medication should I require it, but it did slowly heal over the next several weeks without further intervention (her vet prescribed the correct treatment although apparently he misdiagnosed the actual condition). He has some mild scarring (muzzle) - and, unfortunately, his testes haven't dropped (and my vet can't feel them anywhere near the scrotum), so he'll need to be neutered quite young. All in all, it's not exactly what I'd hoped for, but I love him to bits and the partial refund softened the blow.
Yes, very good point. You can bring a puppy home from an excellent breeder, with all health checks in place, and the puppy apparently in fabulous health. Sooner, or later, then can still cause you endless emotional and financial pain with health problems.
I am so sorry for you. It always seems that the most well-intentioned puppy buyer, who thinks they've done all the checks, ends up bringing home a puppy with health issues. It happened to me and it has happened to other people on this forum -- I guess that is why we seek out such forums, to help us through these hard times. It's highly likely that whichever decision you take, you might regret either decision. If you keep her and she ends up costing you a lot of money in healthcare, you'll regret not having taken her back. If you take her back, you might always wonder "what if" -- perhaps she would've turned out okay. There are no guarantees with a living, breathing being! You can list all the pros and cons of returning her vs keeping her. All this make sense on paper. But it's your heart you'll need to live with, and only you know what you can live with. If it were me, I'd definitely be talking to the breeder and letting him know what your vet said -- this is important information for him to know. I'd ask for a full refund (or partial refund if that is all you can get) and then get on with helping your puppy with her health issues using the refunded money to pay for this. Because I'm guessing by now you feel she's yours? I'm pleased your vet said you can't start vaccinations until your puppy is well. Our vet vaccinated our puppy while he was sick (the 3-month vac, plus kennel cough and rabies), and I'm sure it contributed to his ongoing health issues. Could you ask your vet for an estimate of costs so that you know what you're in for -- perhaps that will ease your decision making? You've been given great advice by everyone above. Best of luck with this very difficult situation.
Agree with @Boogie and @JulieT wholeheartedly here. Not that your decision will based solely on health issues, but it's very important to take into consideration. I had massively more health issues with my poorly-bred rescue Rottie than my wonderfully-bred Rottie, but my rescue passed away at 13 and my well-bred boy at 5 years old. We hope we're stacking the deck in our favour by choosing a dog from a good breeder, but there are no guarantees. I don't know if thinking about that will help you or not, but it's something I left out of my original answer so was glad that Mags and Julie brought it up.
Sadly this happened to me. I chose not to keep the young dog. I'd rehomed him via a breed rescue from his original breeder, he had some behaviour issues which were easily sorted but they told me he be crated and had poor muscle development and that he'd been vet checked. he In fact had either spinal damage from an accident or degenerative spinal condition and not been vet checked at all. I aleady had a disabled dog who required a lot of extra care and felt i couldn't cope with 2 disabled dogs. I was devistated by the whole thing. I loved the dog he fitted in and his behavioural issues were easy to solve. The breeder knew I was extremely distressed by the whole thing and was very apologetic, she had him back and his condition investigated. It put me off even looking for a new dog for 3 years and is something I don't even like to think about. What ever you do make your choice quickly, my heart goes out to you. You have my best wishes.
Yes this is exactly what I thought - that for her sake I needed to make the decision quickly. Thank you everyone for your comments and helpful advice. Yes one of the things the vets said was that it was likely the skin condition wouldn't be covered by insurance and/Or would be seen as a pre-existing condition. I contacted the breeder and explained all that had happened. I asked if they had been seen by his vet as per the contract, to which he admitted they hadn't. He said perhaps it's just dry skin so I emailed him photos I had taken of her and the mites/parasite and also the vets report. He said the other puppies are ok and don't seem to have any problems. Either he was lying or if he was telling the truth, I did think why should I be paying full price for a sick dog. I don't want to sound cheap...I am well aware there are lots of risks and potential costs with having a dog. And I paid for her to be treated (the vet said if I wanted we could leave her until I had spoken to the breeder but I wanted her helped as soon as possible). But I also have to be realistic about what I can afford to pay outside of insurance. I also spoke to the vet again on the phone and talked through options and suggestions. In the end I made the very difficult and painful decision to return her to the breeder. In the contract there was a clause that said if there were non disclosed conditions found after the sale, a return and refund was permitted. So I went for this and thankfully he agreed to it. I took a report from the vets and a list of the medication she had received and the remaining shampoo. When I went I could hear in the utility room but not see the other puppies. All the adult dogs were outside in the kennels. He said all he could think was that she had been in the garden and he had noticed today they had foxes in the garden and perhaps she had picked up something. This was very concerning because I thought well what else had she picked up??! And it confirmed my decision. It also made me wonder if my D&V is connected? Despite being religious about hand washing. I do feel really bad for the puppy but I have to remember it is his responsibility as the breeder to keep his puppies healthy and not sell them if they aren't. I've tried to help her as much as I can. But it's been a very difficult and painful 48 hours.
Much sympathy - I bet that's been traumatic. You did the best thing by acting quickly. I hope you feel better soon, I bet it's been very emotional.
