I've been taking Kodi out on walks ever since he got his vaccines at 11 weeks. He's met lots of people and dogs, but every interaction with people he has always backed off and stayed behind me. I was told he should grow out if this if he keeps his socialisation up. There were certain people he would say hello to, but he doesn't now. He's now 6 months and he was due his 6 month check up today with the nurse at the vets. He backed in the corner every time the nurse approached, even when she offered treats. In the end she said Kodi was too nervous and couldn't be checked and she gave me a card for a dog behaviourist. We already go to a dog class with a trainer who is also a behaviourist and she said its nothing to worry about as he's always been shy. If he doesn't snap out of this will he bite when he gets older? He's started barking at people halfway down streets then nearly pulling me onto the road if they approach him. There's only certain people he'll tolerate and everyone else is apparently the anti-christ to him! Anyone else had this problem? And how did you deal with it? Thanks
Sorry I can't help very much as Juno has always been a very easy dog although occasionally if she's not sure of something she switches sides so she's more behind me but continues to walk when asked. I think I would look at an assessment from another behaviourist to try and help over his fears. He may be shy but if he's pulling do hard he's nearly dragged you into the road it sounds as if you need some suggestions to help him. Hopefully some more experienced members will be along soon with helpful suggestions.
Sorry to hear of your problems , what a shame but all is not lost ! So often, the advice is to de sensitise , which is good, but baby steps should be made . To immerse Kodi would possibly have an adverse effect on him, so please take it slowly . Some dogs are just more cautious/nervous/anxious than others and it can be hard . My own lad Sam had a fear of water when he was a puppy , so unlike most Labs , but I knew that very gentle encouragement had to be applied or he would be much worse . Do you have someone you could walk with, preferably someone with a calm adult dog themselves ? This would be good for Kodi as often, pups will take the cue from older dogs and their confidence will have a boost in the process . I do think this would be the best way to go with him if possible , good luck .
Meant to add , it was by observing older dogs having fun in the water , that gave Sam the confidence to get in himself and now I cant keep him out , so this shows how being around calm but confident dogs can really help one who may be struggling .
Shy is one thing. Barking at distant people out of fear, Vet staff unwilling to handle and your concern about possible fear aggression, or as I think it is more aptly called, fear defense, are things I would call in a behaviourist to consult about. Such reactions as you describe could be life threatening if your dog needs to be examined at the Vet. Or he could get himself and you into trouble if he bites. He has only to snap and even if he misses a scared person could report you. My own Jet was shy and did not willingly approach strangers but she did not bark. Hmmm, now wait, Jet did start barking at strangers when she was about a year old and I figured out how to cure that. There are so many variables that could be at play I think you should call in someone to work with you and Kodi in person and observe what we here cannot. Unfortunately a thorough Vet check is often a place to start, to see if he has a hurt somewhere. Blood work might tell some things too. Good luck.
Buffy (also 6 months and socialised exactly how the books told us!) has recently been going through a fear phase. We spoke to a behaviourist about it and she advised distracting her and teaching her to pay attention to us when we ask for it. This has worked really well and now most times when she sees a person she will immediately look to me expecting a bit of sausage she still barks a bit at dogs but we are working on that too and it's improving quite quickly. One thing I have noticed is that she always barks more at the beginning of walks, I think because she's excited and that makes the nerves worse. I would speak to a behaviourist because they can tailor their advice to match you and your dog. They can see how your dog is behaving and work out the best way to deal with it. ETA- forgot to say we have also been using Adaptil collars, lavender oil and a calming spray stuff that the vet gave us (I think it's called remedy something?). Not sure if those are contributing or not but might be worth a go, they are not that expensive.
Dave201 and BuffyDog ... not that I am excited that you are dealing with these problems, but it's so nice to hear that I am not alone. Otis is 5 months old and recently became very nervous of strangers both entering our house and in public. He was never shy until about 3 weeks ago, so I do think he's began a fear period. Nonetheless, it's something we have to approach gently because this type of thing definitely could turn into aggression if ignored. His issue is growling and barking at people who try to approach him. He's perfectly fine with people with dogs, and people at the pet store, and even random people.... but he gets very nervous at certain people without dogs that try to come near him. We do a lot of "look at that" in public now. I've already spent hours and hours doing this. So every time he looks at people without reacting, I click and treat with a high value reward. It seems to really be making a difference, and we've gotten to the point that most people can walk by now without getting any sort of reaction from him. The thought is that eventually hell immediately look at me instead of growling when he sees something he's uncomfortable with. I start as soon as I even see someone that he's about to see, so that I avoid any reaction at all. Yesterday we spent an hour and a half at the beach (lots of people, lots of dogs) and the only people he growled at were a special needs child (bless him) who didn't want to stay put and came right at Otis which made him uncomfortable, and a couple who had ferrets at the beach (he hates ferrets, which I already learned embarrassingly at the pet store). Anyway, if you're not clicker training I would highly suggest starting as it seems like a very effective way to deal with this type of situation. It's so hard to have a lab who's so nervous of people when labs are notoriously overly friendly, so many people just don't understand! Luckily, our pups are quite young and have plenty of opportunity to hopefully grow out of this (with our help) before it becomes a full blown behavior in an adult dog.
It is nice to know I'm not alone! Buffy is our first puppy and I have to say the fear period completely caught me by surprise. I was so upset because I thought I'd done something wrong. And even when you do start on the right track, it takes a while to see results so I was always a bit worried that I wasn't doing the right thing. We went to the garden centre this morning and after a bit of excited barking when we first got there, she was as good as gold, I even managed to distract her from bothering the rabbits and parrots in the pet section. The behaviourist told me to take her to lots of places and give her some really stinky treats that are saved for just when we go out somewhere new. It's working well but I reek of tuna all the time I have been lent a book about clicker training and it does sound like a brilliant idea. I'm worried I'll cock it up though! Is it hard to get it right?
Poppy was the same - she went through a period of 'woofing' at strangers. It was definitely fear-based, and could be very embarrassing when people came to the house! We got through it with the tried and tested method of rewarding her for staying close to heel and ignoring strangers with big treats.. It really worked well.
Hi I have two four year old male labs, brothers, Scott and Scout who have been scared and reactive towards strangers approaching them from about six months of age. They had prolonged veterinary treatment as young pups which I think was a factor but I do think genetically they are of a nervous disposition. This is, I'm afraid, a long thread I wrote about how I have tried to over come their problems http://thelabradorforum.com/forum/need-help-with-your-labrador/labrador-behaviour/5046-bat-tips Their training is still on going and I think always will be but they will now take food from people who at one time they wouldn't let within six feet of them. The BAT website is http://empoweredanimals.com I would also recommend the books Behavioural Adjustment Training by Greisha Stewart and Why Does My Dog Do That by Caroline Spencer. Time and patience are the main things and always go at the dogs pace don't let people barge in and stroke your dog. You will meet people who think they will be the ones to 'fix' your dog and your dog is bound to love them but it's those people your dog probably won't love. The people who ignore your dog will be the ones he gets to love. You will also get people who are amazed that a labrador can behave in such a way because labradors are all friendly and love people. My dogs have never bitten or snapped at anyone but I'm always aware that there is a chance as a frightened dog can be unpredictable.
Mine can be the same. Shadow is fine on his own, but Willow will sometimes bark at strangers. Especially at this time of year, when people are wearing hoods over their heads, carrying ski/snowboard gear and walking strangely in their boots. I use the "look at that" method described in the book Control Unleashed, which really helps her and builds her confidence. Not really, although it does need a bit of practice to get your timing right at first. You can practice by bouncing a ball on the ground (or having someone else do that) and clicking exactly the moment the ball touches the ground. Then, it's just a case of breaking each movement you want into the tiniest little bits, so, for example, if you want your dog to touch a target with her nose, you'd start off by clicking her paying any attention to it, even the smallest of glances, and gradually build your way up to the touch. I highly recommend it as a training method; my two love it. Start with something that doesn't matter whether you get it right or not, so it doesn't matter if you mess it up a bit. As you do more and more, the dog will get better at working out problems.
I'm sorry, I misread this a bit. I agree that at his age it could be a fear period. HIs reactions seem a little extreme though, more than any I've experienced or heard about. The Vet not wanting to examine him is worrying. Vet nurse. Perhaps she should have asked the Vet? Was the Vet nurse new? ETA: To my mind and in my experience there is nothing wrong with having a shy dog. My Jet never scared anyone by running up to them in full tilt happy Lab mode expecting to be petted. She never jumped on anyone, she lay quietly on the leash while we talked with people. I did have to say to some who would approach her without my permission that she did not like to be petted by strangers. She was fine with people we knew and handled just fine at the Vet's though I did always ask to have one of the women and the not the man. It's not the worst problem you can have.
Thanks for the responses everyone. We've just got back from puppy class and after speaking more with the trainer she was convinced Kodi was going through the secondary fear period which happens between six and eighteen months and can happen more than once. Also known as fear of new situations(FNS) -Thanks google. Here is a quote I found about it; "FNS is marked by the dog’s reluctance to approach something familiar—as if they’re seeing it for the first time—and/or an unwillingness to approach new things. A dog’s behavior may range from slight caution or hesitation, to downright fearful refusal. FNS is an adolescent phenomenon that may occur sometime between six and 18 months of age. It may also occur more than once." This actually makes a lot of sense as he wont even greet our neighbour. which he used to when he was younger, and refuses to walk passed the bus stop without barking at everyone like a lunatic. A bus stop he's been walking by pretty much since he could go out.
I'm a bit bemused by discussions of 'fear phases' to be honest. They have been mentioned a few times on the forum, and I've tried to look them up, and never found anything satisfactory in terms of an explanation. My understanding (which may be mistaken) is that you socialise a puppy when it is young, and before it really learns to be cautious, so later when its instincts to be more cautious kick in, which is just normal for all dogs, it isn't scared of new things, people, dogs and so on. I do think adolescent dogs can just be a bit 'funny' time to time, like teenage humans...but I'm not convinced by this fear phase stuff. Although I'd love some reliable references if people have them. I'd say that the best approach is to assume you need to continuously socialise your teenage dog, carefully and diligently, taking into account you may have a 'shy' dog, on an ongoing basis, and not assume it it temporary or something he will grow out of or will pass. That't not to say you won't overcome it, of course, but I think it's likely to be your efforts at socialisation and desensitisation that will do the trick, rather than a phase passing. Best of luck with it.
JulieT, I agree about the fear period stuff. Saying they're going through a fear period can imply that they'll grow out of it on their own.... which could cause some major problems. I'd love some sources too if people have them. My trainer correlated it with adolescence as well, and said that its not uncommon to see big behavioral changes around this age. With that being said, he also emphasized that we should not ignore this behavior as it could potentially turn into aggression in adulthood if dealt with incorrectly. We're really trying our hardest to get him through this fear of his.... so hopefully I'll see some progress soon. The change was literally overnight. He loves people with dogs and people at the pet store, but it's the random people without dogs that he feels very threatened of. Thank God for this forum, or I may have lost my mind by now!
I've heard lots about the "fear phase" in dogs which early socialisation is aimed at reducing as a minimum, but it is just a label. What you call it is unimportant, how you deal with it is far more important. What has your trainer suggested to help you get Kodi through this?
Poppy's main fear was of people walking alone in the woods - especially of old people. She was fine with people in crowds, but suddenly became freaked by solitary people out on walks! And yet we had definitely proofed against that - we meet people on walks all the time, walking singly or in groups. It was odd, and lasted a while, but is gone now. I must say though, if someone walks or jogs past me on a walk, she still comes up to me expectantly, as if to say 'There, I didnt woof at them - where's my treat?'. Once in a while I still give her a treat as a reinforcer.
I think perhaps Julie you have never experienced this with Charlie for two reasons. First - his character. By all accounts he is a happy, bouncy, confident boy who loves everyone and everything. Secondly where you live - you probably come across every sort of person and dog that you could imagine! So on a day-to-day basis as a puppy and young dog he was constantly exposed to new experiences and people. We who live more out in the country have to work a little harder at finding the right scenarios for proofing against many different situations.
I think what you did, Karen in associating treats with solitary strangers, was exactly right - and according to Patricia McConnell, Poppy's temperament in this regard anyway is likely something she was born with - just like Charlie was born with the (slightly annoying) temperament that makes him dash up to solitary strangers in the wood saying "Hi! Hi! IT'S MEEEEE" regardless of whether I socialised him, continued to socialise him, or not. I suppose I just wonder if there really are any 'fear periods' or the dog just goes through the exact process that we expect, and this is the reason we need to socialise dogs and continue to socialise them. I think it's interesting, and I'd be really interested in any reliable references that explain things - the more we know, the better able we are to deal with these things when they arise.
I think we were posting at the same time, Karen - and said very similar things. I complete agree it's about the temperament of the dog - Charlie is completely over socialised because he was hugely socialised by his environment (and my efforts) and was (is) the type of dog who needed very little socialisation anyway. Other dogs will need more socialisation and ongoing socialisation. My question, if anyone has an answer, is whether there are regular 'periods' in a dog's development that is different from the puppy stage where the puppy is dependent, and not fearful of things (key socialisation opportunity period), and then this wears off and the dog becomes more cautious/fearful (so you prepare for this through socialisation and keep that up).
