Hmm, I sympathise with the A-B frustration. My son hates it when I do literally anything to make shamas behave. Whther it's a quick game, sitting at corners, or stop-starting during points of bad behavior. He'd prefer to just get where we're going regardless of Shamas' behavior on the lead, and seems to expect him to figure it out as we go. I have explained that a dog needs training, and a large dog cannot just be tossed on a lead and walked without training. I refuse to resort to control methods to manage untrained dog in a year, when he gets too strong for me to manage. If he's 5, and has gained 20 lbs of muscle in 4 months without changing shape...what sort of size potential does this 75lb dog have when he starts doing the Lab beefing up, as he slows down with age?? No, he MUST be trained not to pull now, before he does more than just pull my shoulder out going after a cat...or pop my daughter's elbow trying to drag her down the street. My Nan had a Lab who pulled me over and dragged me down the street when I was young. I don't want the same thing here. On a lighter note, we worked on reactivity today. There's a house across the street, and 3 doors down, where they often sit out front. They have an ancient pitbull, and Shamas protests her presence outside. So when I went to take him outside, and he stiffened up, I grabbed a handful of cat food, and sat with him on the front step. He could see the dog, but I had him on the front clip. every time he went to make a noise at the other dog, I said "eh! Look at me" and gave him a single kibble. After a few repeats, he was just looking over at the house, and back at me for the kibble...and halfway through the handful, I was able to take him to the curb for his pee on the pole, where...after a few more treats...he did his thing and came back up to the step and sat for a couple more minutes before going into the house. Not the BEST treat, but it was handy, and is for Shamas, I high-demand treat. He LOVES cat kibbles. I want to get him to the point where people aren't afraid to walk their dogs past our house if we're outside. He can look pretty threatening sometimes, and I've seen people get pretty nervous walking by. Especially if he lunges on the lead. It's been standard response to put him in the house if he acts up, but I know that's not going to help the behavior in the long run- only stops it at the time. I need to train him to calm down, and focus on me, instead of passers by. so I'm starting with people, and I'll move up to passing dogs as he learns not to respond to people.
A bit reactive today. One of the neighborhood Mutts was coming downt he street,a nd Shamas has met him before..but I could tell he'd be misbehaving today, and the dog was coming on rapidly, so no time to put him inside....so I took to heel and got him moving rapidly down the street int he same direction down the street, so that the dog was left behind us. he tried to turn and kick up a fuss twice, but I did the old "come on, let's go!" in my best cheerful voice, and kept him going at a fast trot. As we rounded the corner, I sat him, and petted and praised him while the dog went the other way and into his own home. There were a pair of beat cops at the corner, and they gave me an odd look as we rounded the corner..then clued in as they saw the other dog coming up. Given the aggressive dogs in my area, mine is a far preferred way of handling the issue to having a dog lunging on the lead to attack another dog. When the dog was gone, I took him back home, and into the house...and just in time too- a chihuaha came by off-lead a couple of minutes later and peed on his pole-that would have thrown Shamas right over the threshold. We also managed the reactivity with some pedestrians. The first one was a man in his 30s, radiating hostility-Shamas thretened him. The other 3 were normal people walking down the street, and I was able to get him to sit nicely with minimal to no fuss(none with the female, a little fuss with the men) while I petted and praised him. My favorite Hosta's getting a little flat...apparently Shamas likes to sit in it when I call him to me to watch people walk by :/
If you have a spare few dollars, this video might be of use to you: it's Leslie McDevitt's pattern games. It's quite old now, and the production quality is nothing like you get in videos produced today, but there's some really useful stuff in it for reactive dogs. https://www.tawzerdog.com/programs/pattern-games-clicking-for-confidence-and-connection
Yes, that would help a lot. I did give my clicker to Chance's mom...as her one last shot to reduce his aggression before rehoming him out of the city. But I might grab another and retry it now that I have some more experience with dogs, and Shamas is learning to pay attention to me better. They're not expensive.
I’ll dig out a link tomorrow for my favourite clicker - or has a rubber ring that slots over a finger do you don’t need to hold on to it per se and it’s always there. It helps with coordination and makes it less cumbersome when you’re trying to juggle everything. You can use your voice if you find it easier, but I do find with a reactive dog of the stimulus gets slightly too close (because we can’t always control everything in the real world) then the clicker cuts through the buzzing in their brains a lot more effectively than a verbal marker.
Thanks. That was the issue witht he last one. between treats, lead, dog, and paying attention to the world around me...I found I was dropping the clicker or just not using it. It hung on the hook by the door for a couple of months before I gave it away.
Yes! Finaly figuring out LAT It took a cup of fresh-cooked chicken, and two smokes out front to nail it. while I stood leaned against the van, I kept a constant stream of chicken bits in my hand. Each time he looked away, and back at me, I gave him a bit. Halfway through, the neighbour pulledd into his driveway..shamas looked over, I clicked, and he looked over and teated him...only a single peep out of him on the first look-over, then he was completely focused on his chicken again. He then successfully ignored the neighbour going into his yard, even though it took nearly a minute, as he paused to listen to me explaining what I was doing to my teenager. he also ignored the SUV that pulled up out front, and the man that got out to deliver something into the neighbour's mailbox. I noticed after the fact that someone had walked past us. And he paid little attention to the skateboarder(not a trigger, but still passing by) except to take the opportunity to leach an extra treat or two for looking over and back. Normally he barks at the neighbours as they come into their drive, and passers by are greeted with barks as we redirect Shamas and explain that he's in training. If chicken is the key, I'll have to figure out a way to keep it fresh...I wonder if I can cook it and freeze it..only pulling out enough to use each day
Here, this is the clicker I use. I have several of them. You can also buy it on Amazon: https://www.traininglines.co.uk/dogsline-push-button-dog-training-finger-clicker.html
I do this. I roast a whole chicken, pull the meat off and stick it in a bag in the freezer, then grab a bit each day. It works well.
Amazon.ca doesn't have that one, but I found this one https://www.amazon.ca/Trixie-Activi...6&sr=1-3&keywords=Dog+Training+Finger+Clicker
You know those people with friendly dogs who assume that yours just needs socialising? There's one of those in my neighbourhood who's determined to have his pair meet Shamas. Kevin's explained that shamas is a reactive /dog aggressive rescue. Shamas has growled and snapped at his pair, in the first week we had him when he brought htme to meet him, but he put it down to the harness,collar combination I was using. I told him today that Shamas is still unpredictable..about 50/50 with other dogs and could be fine one moment and barking/lunging the next..so I didn't want them to meet yet-which was why I placed Shamas around the other side of a fence from this guys dogs at the Tim Hortons and waited for him to leave before going inside. The guys one dog is a frustrated greeter- she barks if she can't reach another dog. This sets Shamas on the defensive. Add to that, they're smaller dogs, and Shamas is nervous of smaller dogs. his issues have always been smaller dogs. Chihuahas, a tiny fluffy thing that went for his throat out of nowhere, a young egyptian dog that jumped on him from his blind spot, an old bulldog who "attacked him for no reason" (overzealously corrected his rude sniffing behavior at the dog park) You could tell Shamas was nervous-his tail was clearly down, and he was leaning on me. This guys dogs might be friendly, but Shamas is NOT ready to meet them. My bag of chicken and me squatting beside him was the thing keeping Shamas calm. I'd have beat a hasty retreat, but I'd already tied Shamas up before I realised the guy was on his way over- and I would have had to unclip Shamas' lead to untie him from the fence..he might have gotten loose from me and gone after the dogs. As it was, he was behaving very well, and I was feeding him treats to keep him calm. The guy took his dogs away, with that "All you need to do is socialise the poor dog" attitude about him. I see that look all too often among my dad's friend group
Today I learned that I'm myself dog-reative after all of the issues that we've had. That's not good at all. Will be continuing LAM/LAT training, as documented in this thread:https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/look-at-that-training.24060/#post-371271.....and we're seriously considering Thursday evening Beginner classes to help me with my confidence. theyre $129, but given my issues....I think that's money well spent. Shamas won't continue to improve unless I do. The neighbour, an experienced dog owner, has suggested that Shamas won't learn how to behave around other dogs if I hide him in the house every time one comes by....he says that it's better to secure him close to me and manage the behavior, offering treats for good behavior and a consequense for lunging-he suggested placing a muzzle on Shamas for 5 minutes if he's offering lunging/threatening behavior and treats if he's calm. This was how he trained his pitbull. He says that Shamas needs to experience dogs in proximity to learn how to behave...and as such, he allowed Tiko to be on the porch while I played LAM with Shamas on my front yard. The change was amazing! After a minute of fussing, Shamas realised that I have treats, and Tiko was not coming to his place....and returned his attention to me, and the treats. Tiko sat in his owner's arms and occasionally yipped..and Shamas ate a LOT of kibble while we chatted. Today, I was coming home with Shamas, and Tiko was coming out, and Shamas didn't react. I don't know if that had to do with yesterday's session...or that fact that Shamas was already on his way in the house.
There is no scientific evidence but all anecdotal evidence points to the fact that early intervention is better than later intervention in pretty much all contexts, including how we deal with stress. Consider it yourself; if you are put into a point of mild unease, does it take you a longer or shorter time to recover from it than if you're in a state of panic? The answer is pretty obvious. The same applies to dogs and conditioning them to be OK with things they fear. Keep them as comfortable as you can around the thing they are fearful of. Throwing them in at the deep end might work if the dog learns that there is nothing to fear after all, but you know, it's a terribly, terribly dangerous game. Instead, look for the moment of "pre-worry", which is before your dog is showing any signs of discomfort and that is where you should be doing your therapy. You can manage this by working on focus games from inside where he can see the other dog before you go outside. If you watch the pattern games video I linked to, you'll see that the rhythm of the game is really useful for reactive dogs and allows them to be aware of their triggers whilst not focussing on them. Your neighbour's suggestion that you should use "consequences" (a euphemism for punishment) for behaviour that Shamas is expressing because he is fearful is dangerous and draconian. You should never, ever suppress behaviours because by doing so, you are leaving him no way of expressing how he feels and, if put in the same situation again, he will have no choice but to escalate up the ladder of behaviours, which is where dogs start getting in real trouble. No, you need to address his emotions and you're not doing that by putting him in situations where he's lunging. Lunging is never the first indication a dog gives that he's uncomfortable (unless he has previously been punished for the preceding behaviours), you just need to train yourself to spot his earlier signals and then get him out of those situations. To punish with a muzzle for lunging behaviour? How on earth is the dog supposed to connect those two things? To punish at all with a muzzle? Making the muzzle a bad thing? No, that's crazy. Dogs should be muzzle trained, and they should actively enjoy having the muzzle put on. In which case it's not a punisher. So, your neighbour is talking out of his posterior. The one thing I would say that was good was that Shamas learnt that the other dog wasn't coming into his space. That is an important lesson (although in my opinion it was approached in a misguided way) and you should remember that this is the lesson he needs. That Tiko isn't coming into his space. Ever. Don't try to go one better and bring another dog into Shamas' space otherwise the lesson he's learnt ("it's OK, that dog isn't going to bother me") will be lost.
Here, we are in agreement. I'm still focusing on LAM, and don't intend on buying a muzzle. Instead, I plan on putting Shamas in beginner classes..... perhaps not this round, as I'm not sure if he's ready to be dropped in a room with 4 other dogs. Probably in the fall. I bought a treat bag, and we're going through a cup of kibble at each outing. Shamas is learning to check in with me any time he hears or sees something that makes him uncomfortable, and also at random times just because. His pulling on the walk is decreasing, as he learns that the treats are distributed at my right side. Shamas has until recently been reacting to the neighbours on both sides coming home, and barking/lunging at their coming and going--which is unfair to them. A person should be able to come and go from their own house without a dog lunging at them. The point of this was to establish with Shamas that his space remains unmolested. Visitors are greeted by us at the front of the sidewalk,and given treats to toss in his direction, but Shamas is not expected to meet them. Dogs do not come on the yard. People walk by...and he gets lots of treats every time a car, person or dog comes into sight. the only exception to this rule are my dad's pack- who we met for the first time at the park, and Shamas is friends with. He greeted them at the curb, and led them into his back yard, where we visited. as Toby can be a bit of an enforcer, he was kept on-leash.
Today we saw a dog on the walk. Hubby warned me of his approach and I assessed the owner and dog. While large and fluffy, both owner and dog were completely calm, so I treated Shamas and made to give them a decent space. Shamas had other plans-he wanted to meet and greet, and asked to go over. The owner was agreeable, and we explained that Shamas was a rescue who was being socialised. The interaction was positive and only given about 30 seconds, followed by treats. We did not take our normal route afterwards....instead we decided to keep his stress low by avoiding the street crossing and turning home to reinforce the positivity of this meeting. Oh-and when we came inside after our evening training session, he didn't go after midnight, who was in the livingroom and made a dash for the safe room......he went straight for his toy instead People aren't crossing the street anymore when they pass the house because Shamas isn't freaking out anymore...training is going well. we walk around the front yard, and up to the pole, which lets me scan the street. When someone is coming down the street, we come back to the porch, and I sit Shamas down and start with the treats every time he looks away and back to me. I know that Cramer(dog) walks by about 5pm, so we stay inside from 4-6 to make sure that we miss him. He's also barely reacting to Tiko and the other neighbours coming in and out--a single half-hearted bark and he's back to me.
My son has joined in on Training. He's started coming along on walks, so if I feel myself tense up at something that Shamas has always reacted to, I hand the leash off to him. This lets Shamas learn to get over his fears without my learned reactivity transmitting through the lead.... and I figure as I see Shamas Not react to those things, my own tenseness should subside. Because I'm sure it's in large part habit-formed, just as it is for Shamas when he acts scared at certain places where he's not afraid anymore. We're both use to the routine of his turning to run home, and I have to bribe him with treats to get him to move on...but if someone else has the lead, he walks by like that spot isn't even there. He met a well-trained Retreiver puppy near the park yetserday. It was off-leash, so I employed LAM and fed him chicken to bring him from tense(not agressive) to excited and probaby sounded really silly lol. "shamas it's a puppy! LAM! Do you see the puppy? LAM! isn't it cute? LAM! what a good puppy! LAM Good boy Shamas! LAM! What a good boy! LAM See the puppy? LAM! (by now he's wagging and his whole body wiggles like at petsmart when he wants to see the friendly dogs) Ok let's go. While I was doing this, the owner had the puppy sitting at the edge of the park, waiting for a go-ahead. The distance started at 75 feet, and halfway through the litany shortened to 50 feet while I assessed Shamas body language, to decide if he'd be able to walk past. I hadn't actually anticipated him wanting to MEET the puppy but was happy to see that turn of events, because it shows him getting more comfortable with my handling. This is the second dog he's asked to meet since LAM started. The puppy met Shamas on our side of the street, and Shamas pulled me towards her. I remembered to fight my incination to pull back, recalling that if I pull back it tells him there's a cause for concern.....so I put a little slack on the lead, and moved forward with him. He met with head low, slightly submissive, tail at a low wag, slight crouch, and off to the side. she was off lead the whole time, but the owner clipped her lead on when I told Shamas "ok that's enough" One more sniff and we moved on with a happy dog a few minutes later, we walked almost parallel to another calm dog across the street, but Shamas wasnt bothered. distance was about 75 feet, as they were slightly ahead. I think Shamas might be learning that I say "lets give them space" just before crossing the street to move away from other dogs. He now looks at them and heads for the road
Shamas is now walking well enough on his leash that other people want to walk him. The downside to this is that they all have different walking styles and don't want to get on board with me. My youngest believes that Shamas "needs his freedom" and wants to walk him on the back of harness. so I only let her walk him in parks or quiet places, where I know he's relaxed. My husband prefers a firm "heel", which doesn't work well on the front harness clip--it pulls to the side and interferes with his front left leg(I walk right side due to an injury) so I'm starting with a 1foot lead hanging from his collar, which can be used to "heel" while walking him on the harness most of the time. the good news is, he's now been wlaking on harness for long enough that the pressure that a collar puts on his throat is uncomfortable, so the stop-start method works very well on the collar. When I first got him, Shamas would strangle himself dragging me down the street, but now he walks pretty well now matter what I put on him. I am leaving the 4foot lead on the harness attached to my belt while I walk him on the collar, as he's slipped a collar in the past and I don't want to risk a repeat.
Things are coming along well. When I look at Shamas now, and compare him to the dog that i rescued...the change is amazing! He's still dog reactive, but he no longer tries to pre-emptively attack every dog on the street. We can sit with pettings and treats, and watch larger dogs pass by accross the street.... only having reactions to intact males or dominant dogs. the main exceptions to this rule are terrier types and chihuahas-he still reacts agressively to those dogs. His fear when coming to main roads is diminished, and he can cross at the crosswalk at Nelson with little to no hesitation now. I still don't push him to try to cross anywhere that he shows abject fear....he won't go within two blocks of the main throughfares, which means that we can't get to the best parks without driving. A shame, but no point pushing him. This comes down to an even near the start of his training, when I did not understand the root of his issues, and walked him on a prong collar-he spooked at the traffic, and physically dragged me out of the area, in spite of the pain to his neck(I only used it for a week before swapping to martingale, then harnesses). I've been working on so many other issues since, and haven't had a chance to work on his fear of that particular area yet. Though we have managed to walk him on a minor thoughfare once or twice, with many treats and much praise. The barking at the window is now reduced to a couple of barks, then he comes to call. If someone comes to the door, I have him sit before I open it. I have a sign posted on the screen door as door-to-door season is starting and it drove shamas into a frenzy: PLEASE NO CANVASSING-THE RESCUE IS LEARNING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VISITORS AND TRESPASSERS, AND STRANGERS ARE STRESSFUL. TRAINING PROTOCOL MAY CAUSE A DELAY IN ANSWERING TO CALLERS Cat chasing is generally called off before it starts and returning to me instead of chasing is rewarded with treats...though Helen doesn't help matters by occasionally challenging him. If she gets out of line I scold her and shut her in her room, while calling Shamas to heel. He still can't resist chasing the cats into their room first thing in the morning...so I start each day by putting a leash on his collar and hold it when I open the door, to give the younger two time to get to their "safe room" they have the run of the house while shamas is locked up for the night, and 2-3 times a day when i take him out...but they head for their room when I bring him into the house. the vet told me that the cat chasing might be a permanent thing because he's a hunting breed and wasn't taught as a puppy. I'll keep working on it because even when he does chase, he whines while he's chasing- he KNOWS he shouldnt chase. He's friends with Matt-the big cat. Matt's 17lbs and moves slow and steady. Shamas never chases him unless he's jumping. The only time Matt has issue with Shamas is if he's scratching furnature and Shamas bark/growls at him because he's not allowed to wreck the furnature-it's an obvious behavioral correction. Matt will correct Shamas if he's going after the cats too, and I'm not fast enough. the other day, Shamas went for Helen unprovoked , and Matt swatted him, then stared him down and growled until he went and laid down. I couldn't have said it better myself! The happy dog grin is becoming Shamas' normal look, which makes me happy, and he's getting known in the area for carrying a paper coffee tray home from Tim Hortons. His pulling on the walk is much reduced as he focuses on his "job" and relaxes his guard
Yes I agree with @Joy, you've had a lot of challenges to overcome and you're making lots of progress !
