Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4651.msg57758#msg57758 date=1393623705] As far as leg length goes....the distance between the shoulder and the bottom of the chest should be the same distance as between the bottom of the chest and the ground. So the height of the dog should be half leg, half body. [/quote] I think some of the heavier dogs look like a bit more body than leg but I didn't get my ruler out
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Some were standing in grass which doesn't help - but I agree that the short legged look is not a good one! At the extreme of the 'show' end of the spectrum they definitely are pretty badly out of proportion (IMO). A Labrador is meant to move well (and this is tested in the ring) and short legs aren't able to produce free, purposeful movement, I don't think.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=bbrown link=topic=4651.msg57763#msg57763 date=1393624156] I couldn't train a field trial dog no matter how good it's potential is and that may well be true of most if not all show breeders. [/quote] It absolutely must be true that a show breeder couldn't train a field trial dog. But what would a top field trial trainer do with a show dog? I doubt many (any?) have tried. By the way, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not arguing a show line dog could be a field trial dog. But only because people I very much respect have told me, so I accept it, not because I really understand. I want to be able to buy a ticket to a field trial to go see! But I can't.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4651.msg57770#msg57770 date=1393625138] It absolutely must be true that a show breeder couldn't train a field trial dog. But what would a top field trial trainer do with a show dog? I doubt many (any?) have tried. [/quote] So I know a trainer tempted by a chocolate lab in the hopes of competing. While he's an absolutely super dog and a good retriever. Even at his young age he'll do massive long retrieves and is (as you would expect) very well drilled he's not good enough to trial. He'll make someone a wonderful family dog to take shooting though
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment By the way here's another picture of FTCh Twixwood Shooting Star of Fernshot. I think he's pretty good looking http://www.fernshotgundogs.co.uk/Photo-Album.php?currDir=.&pageType=image&image=Fernshot_Universe_with_his_Dad_FTCh_Twixwood_Shooting_Star_of_Fernshot.jpg
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment How much has field trialling changed over the decades? Has it become more demanding over the years? Has it moved beyond what might have originally been expected of a "true to type/true to temperament" Labrador (originally bred to retrieve fish in icy water and then adapted in England to accompany hunters in their shooting activities)? I can see that a show breeder would not want a modern working strain as they sound very full on! Well out of my league Most dogs bred by show breeders go on to pet homes, and a more easy-going, take-it-as-it-comes temperament is needed for this (which is what a Labrador should be, temperament wise, I think).
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Just going slightly off subject, in Julie's clip of the dog retrieving, is that quartering? sorry just curious.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I think the dog is following the trail of an injured bird, known as a runner.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Oh I thought as he was running side to side to find the bird that was quartering. Thanks Barbara :-[
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I very much like the head on the black dog in the picture you linked to, Barbara. Being fussy.....the yellow one could do with a bit more stop (maybe) and also looks to be a bit straight in the front end, without enough breast bone (ie. chest not protruding enough) but you'd need to see them standing to really judge. I would make exactly the same chest/breastbone comment about my own show-line dog who is too short in the upper arms.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4651.msg57770#msg57770 date=1393625138] [quote author=bbrown link=topic=4651.msg57763#msg57763 date=1393624156] I couldn't train a field trial dog no matter how good it's potential is and that may well be true of most if not all show breeders. [/quote] It absolutely must be true that a show breeder couldn't train a field trial dog. But what would a top field trial trainer do with a show dog? I doubt many (any?) have tried. By the way, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not arguing a show line dog could be a field trial dog. But only because people I very much respect have told me, so I accept it, not because I really understand. I want to be able to buy a ticket to a field trial to go see! But I can't. [/quote] I am not a top field trialler but I do trial Ziggy, my Clumber and spend a lot of time training and preparing him for competition. Would I spend the same amount of time on a show Clumber? No, because it would never do well in a field trial compared to working bred Clumbers. And the same applies to Labradors. The show dogs simply lack style and in the case of Clumbers, they also lack pace. A field trial is not set against the clock like a scurry but you still want to see the dogs running hard and fast. Style is more difficult to explain, but you will recognise it as soon as you see it.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I think loads of field labs are "good looking" - they are lovely, lovely, dogs. But a lot also look quite "houndy" and rangy - this doesn't mean they are not pleasing to the eye, or good looking dogs! I love loads of crossbreeds and think they look great too. It's just....well, field labs don't always really look labradory... and they don't always have the otter tail...and blocky head...or thick coat...things that I like. It depends on what you think is pleasing. The first gundog trainer, very much liked Charlie's face because it is too pointy (it's not square) and so "makes him look less like a show line lab". ;D ;D ;D I was happy he approved.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I just told Obi that, as the product of show parents, he has no style. He asked what was not stylish about this:
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4651.msg57787#msg57787 date=1393627207] I very much like the head on the black dog in the picture you linked to, Barbara. Being fussy.....the yellow one could do with a bit more stop (maybe) and also looks to be a bit straight in the front end, without enough breast bone (ie. chest not protruding enough) but you'd need to see them standing to really judge. I would make exactly the same chest/breastbone comment about my own show-line dog who is too short in the upper arms. [/quote] I like them both because they compared to some really rangy working labs I think they do have a labby look with some substance about them. There are other pictures on the website. Twixwood shooting star does seem to have the finer head you often see in working lines but I thought he looked nice and powerful.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4651.msg57793#msg57793 date=1393627663] I just told Obi that, as the product of show parents, he has no style. He asked what was not stylish about this: [/quote] ROFL! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=bbrown link=topic=4651.msg57794#msg57794 date=1393627843] [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4651.msg57787#msg57787 date=1393627207] I very much like the head on the black dog in the picture you linked to, Barbara. Being fussy.....the yellow one could do with a bit more stop (maybe) and also looks to be a bit straight in the front end, without enough breast bone (ie. chest not protruding enough) but you'd need to see them standing to really judge. I would make exactly the same chest/breastbone comment about my own show-line dog who is too short in the upper arms. [/quote] I like them both because they compared to some really rangy working labs I think they do have a labby look with some substance about them. There are other pictures on the website. Twixwood shooting star does seem to have the finer head you often see in working lines but I thought he looked nice and powerful. [/quote] Definitely they are far from being at the extreme and they are most definitely and unmistakably Labradors.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=charlie link=topic=4651.msg57782#msg57782 date=1393626466] Just going slightly off subject, in Julie's clip of the dog retrieving, is that quartering? sorry just curious. [/quote] Quartering is what Spaniels do in searching out game, usually in front of the guns. The lab in the video was following the blood scent of the pheasant and in the beet field did a very good job of it. The dog has got a very soft mouth, as it put the bird down twice to adjust its grip on it. A dog with a hard mouth would most likely crushed it and been eliminated from the trial. Nice looking working dog? Field Trials are held during the Shooting season, and would be advertised in the shooting press. As opposed to working tests which are held during the summer.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Would a lab sweeping a field also be considered to be quartering?
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=bbrown link=topic=4651.msg57803#msg57803 date=1393630632] Would a lab sweeping a field also be considered to be quartering? [/quote] Quartering is hunting for game to flush it for the gun. Yes, labs can quarter but nowhere near as well as spaniels. A good spaniel will hunt fast and close for a long time even if there is not a lot of game around, a Labrador would lose interest very quickly in that sort of situation. Sweeping through after a drive looking for lost birds is not quartering.
