Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Oooohhhh me next, was my description above accurate Rachael? Be gentle with me(I love him ) you might have to excuse the sock but it's probably the best front on shot I have... Side on, leaning forwards for his retrieve Front on, with sock Head shots
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Im loving this thread just for the pictures. Beautiful dogs guys. Love reading the comments on their form etc. I have absolutely no idea about any of it so learning heaps. Keep the pics and commentary coming.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4651.msg58500#msg58500 date=1393882577] Riley is Crufts purple sock king! Lovely boy. [/quote] With Charlie in for good measure aswell as the other chocolate drop Buzz in the back of the car, both of them pulling slightly funny faces
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=JulieT link=topic=4651.msg58490#msg58490 date=1393881070] Got my crufts tickets - it's ok, I have got tickets for Labradors, and not neapolitan mastiffs, phew. It says on the ticket "do not touch the dogs without asking". Good. Maybe I'll get the chance to wander up to a few show Lab breeders and say "I'm having a debate with a few mates, some of them reckon your dog is a Fatpigador, mind if I check and see whether I can feel his ribs?". ;D ;D ;D [/quote] I'm of to crufts at the weekend too! Got tickets for sat and sun! Rachael - thank you for your analysis, it's pretty much what I expected and it's great that it's so detailed. You obviously know what you're talking about! Makes me feel like I need to go swots up haha as now I feel totally clueless!
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Oh and I just checked....I don't think riley fits the close coupled bit. My four fingers had a little wriggle room
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Lauren, thanks for taking it in the spirit in which it was intended. I am no expert by any stretch, I just have my own opinion. Like I said, I will get some pics of Obi when I get home. You are very welcome to tell me that my dog is too fat. Which I think he is a bit, hehe. For a split second I thought that sock was Riley’s tongue ;D In relation to Riley – what a handsome boy. I mostly agree with your own comments, Barbara. Except that I don’t think he is too narrow through the chest. Although you see quite a few very broad chested show dogs, they should not be wide (if you read what breeders wrote about Labradors years ago). They need to cut through the water and a very broad chest impedes that. What I would say of Riley though is that his chest could be more prominent when viewed from the side – he could do with a bit more chest poking out at the front, basically. It could be because his breastbone is not coming out enough and it is possibly also because his upper arm is a little short (the bone between the elbow and the forward part of the shoulder). Obi is exactly the same. The idea is that you want a ‘prow’ formed by the breastbone and you want plenty of muscle thickness to protect them as they push through the icy water (in ancestral Newfoundland). But you don’t want it coming from excessive width. As for his head – that front on shot of him with the sock shows a lovely head. Nice width across the skull and a good wedge shape without becoming too fine in the muzzle. From the side, he could do with a little more depth which would be achieved if his under jaw line kind of continued to slope down a little more before meeting his neck, rather than coming back up again. So, maybe just a bit more depth from the top to bottom of his head. Nice flat top to his head between the ears (a look I personally really like) and a strong muzzle without jowliness. His lips are neat and a bit cushioned/padded looking over his teeth, which is what you want. Lovely ears. I think his eye colour is good. You wouldn’t want it lighter (can get a bit yellow in some blacks but can be too dark also). Front legs nice and straight and feet look pretty good to me. Front leg length looks good (I agree not too leggy). Overall, his body type is similar to Penny’s which gives him a lean and fast, working style look but I would not say that it is coming from his legs per se. I don’t think his top line is too bad – yes, it could be flatter round his rump end but overall I wouldn’t be complaining! Tail is a bit feathered underneath towards the end and tail could be thicker but it is in proportion to the rest of him and it is definitely not anywhere near whip-like. His ribs look rounded in the ‘sock’ photo (basically, if you chopped a Labrador in half through the ribs you want to see a circle in cross-section). His coat looks good to me (but hard to tell from a pic). I really stress that this is just my completely amateur view. I’ve read a bit and looked at a thousand photos and judges' critiques and been to a few shows but that is it. Don’t mistake me for any shade of expert just because I have rabbited on. I do breed for showing – but ducks, not dogs Just saw your other post, Barbara - I would take the 3-4 fingers thing to be bloke's fingers rather than lady fingers, so keep that in mind. So jealous of you people going to Crufts!!!!!
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Ahhhh thanks you've been very kind It's fascinating to see your dog through other peoples eyes! Rileys coat varies from a classic lab coat on his topsides (as we would say in boats) to much finer as you move onto his belly and down his legs. I'm not sure if that's usual or a sign of coat being less of a focus point in the working lines. If his tail was slightly higher set, his topline would probably be better. That photo is probably the one that flatters his topline most
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I think it is fairly normal for the coat to be at its coarsest along the top line - kind of like a raincoat. Obi has a really distinct line where his coat changes from hard to softer - will try to catch it in a photo later. Also, usually there is no to little undercoat along the top of the back - the undercoat is mainly found along the sides.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Wow....I didn't check this thread for a couple of days and look what I missed! I find this all very fascinating. As you all know, I am very new to Labs, and all this stuff is a bit over my head, but I am learning lots. I do think those stocky show labs look weird, in my opinion, with their stubbly legs and thick (fat?) bodies. And I also think that some of those field type are too pointy and houndy. But what so I know?? I know this is all about purebreds, but I would love to post some pics of Simba so you guys could tell me what you think about him. Reason being that I think he looks very Labby, but obviously he has Newfie traits in there too. I just don't know enough about either breed to tell what is what. If you like I could start a different thread, so as not to dilute the topic too much....
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Post away here, Lisa! As good a place as any Here are some of Obi. He is from show parents, grandparents, great grandparents... One of his litter sisters is shown. But he himself didn't make the grade as a show dog, so I would describe him as 'pet quality from a show line'. Bored of photos now, how about a walk? Here are some family members... His sister (just had a litter http://www.mydogs.com.au/jarkklabradors/jarkk-perfect-touch.asp His dad: http://www.mydogs.com.au/jarkklabradors/bonnsway-perfect-knight-1.asp Grandad: http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=40360 As you can see, he has some big dogs in his immediate family, but he himself is not very large by show line standards. He is about the height called for in the Standards at 56cm at the shoulder (males are supposed to be 56-57cm). Comments more than welcome
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I am just blown away by the beautiful Obi! And Riley! Both such lovely dogs. I dare not comment on either, because although I'm reading and looking at tons of photos, feel I know nothing. In comparison to Charlie though, which feels the safest way for me to say anything... Charlie's top line is maybe a little straighter than Obi and Riley, but not much. I reckon Charlie's width of chest at the front is about the same as Obi's - I can fit a hand easily between his front legs. I wondered whether this was a touch too narrow, but I'm not sure now after reading Rachael's comments. Obi's ears look great, they are set rather far back, which I think is right? Charlie's are a smidge further forward. They are triangular, which is also right. (I read the ear section first!). It's hard to tell the shape of Obi's eyes under all that make up! They look to be a bit rounder than Charlie's, which may be more of a diamond shape, but Obi I think has a better Lab expression than Charlie, Charlie's eyes seems small (but no eyemake up on a Chocolate!). Obi's eye colour looks amazing to me! But haven't a clue what it should be on a yellow, really. I think it's always to be brown? Obi does look short coupled to me - Charlie definitely is not, I think his back is very long. Don't know if I have a bias from having a very long backed dog though! Obi's leg at the back from his hock to the floor is straight. As is Charlie's. Although I have seen other show dogs with absolutely ruler straight legs here (but they are trained to stand a certain way too). Obi's feet look well rounded, and his toes don't look to be splaying at all. Same as Charlie, although Charlie might have a tad flatter feet at the front. Not too sure about the head (apart from it being stunning Obi), I'm still trying to get my bearings. Could Obi's head be flatter between the ears viewed from the front? He has a much better stop than Charlie has though. Obi looks like a strong dog, to my eye, not too light at all (he could be heavier built, and he would still look fine to me though). His shoulders look good to me, but all I can detect is a good level of chunkiness and strength, it does look like his shoulder slopes nicely, more than most working line dogs. Charlie has less breastbone than Obi, unfortunately for Charlie. Obi's rear legs look quite muscled to me, with the front part seemingly nicely rounded. Not sure how much they should be though or whether this is right. Obi does have a round rib cage (the cross section test), Charlie's I reckon is more prominently round though. So don't know if Charlie is out of proportion, or Obi's could be more round. In terms of coat - very hard to tell from photos. Obi looks to me to have a very good coat. He has a slight wire look on the top (missing on Charlie) and he looks to have a good undercoat along the sides. With a matt finish - which I think is right. Charlie has a very soft, very shiny coat (which I think is lovely, but I don't think it's "right") although a very, very think undercoat too. Oh dear. I've probably got this all completely and utterly wrong!
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment [quote author=Lisa link=topic=4651.msg58541#msg58541 date=1393912754] I know this is all about purebreds, but I would love to post some pics of Simba so you guys could tell me what you think about him. Reason being that I think he looks very Labby, but obviously he has Newfie traits in there too. I just don't know enough about either breed to tell what is what. [/quote] Love to see pics of Simba. I was just thinking when I saw a pic of him the other day, that I couldn't see much Newfie, he looked a fine dog.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I can't take any photos of Charlie right now (although I'll dig around and see whether I can cobble enough together of the right views). Charlie is from a line of show dogs, mostly with modest success on his mum's side (eg just missing by a place for Crufts), and really from breeders mostly supplying the pet dog market. With a few real champions thrown in along his pedigree (as for most dogs) - as he is Chocolate, I can trace back via Banchory Bolo to Peter of Faskally. At some point, it would be interesting to figure out when his pedigree became "show line". Here is Charlie's Dad: http://www.champdogs.co.uk/dog/4506 - I think Charlie has the same tail! His granddad: http://etang-balancet.pagesperso-orange.fr/oleGB.htm His greatgranddad: http://etang-balancet.pagesperso-orange.fr/ithaque.htm
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Fascinating thread, really enjoyed reading it! I am now starting to see the difference in type..what is really interesting is the purposefulness of the labrador..a dog that nature intended to run all day...dive into deep cold water, charge through undergrowth and be able to scent out prey, and how the characteristics of the dog are designed to do this right down to the shape of his nose! Everyone's dogs are just soooo beautiful!
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment I too am loving seeing pics of everyone's dogs. And seeing the variation that is possible within just one breed! To my inexperienced eye I cannot see a huge amount of difference between Riley and Obi, but the difference from them to Penny is obvious. Obi is absolutely stunning (sorry but I'm a sucker for a yellow. We would have had one if Penny hadn't come along). If I saw him out an about I would e surprised to learn he is from show stock but I guess in my mind he is what show stock are supposed to look like - not these round, short, tubby things we see now - which was I guess the whole purpose of this thread and the article.
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment Obi is beautiful ! I find it hard to look at anything when those mesmerising eyes are on me If there's anything wrong with him, it's definitely in the fine detail that I don't have enough experience to identify!! In terms of build and substance I think he's a great, moderate dog and what I like to see in a show type lab. I can see what you mean about the upper arm in both Riley and Obi though now you've pointed it out. My ideal dog would be somewhere between the build of Riley and Obi I think. I could live with a little more substance to Riley but part of that is his pickiness in eating, it's hard to keep weight on him, I think he hovers just the right side of thin generally but only just. I think Obi's outline is softened and filled out by a very little extra in the padding department Penny is still young, she and Riley are a very similar type although as a girl she may stay a little smaller (Riley is often mistaken for a girl due to his size - a slim 25kgs).
Re: Slimdoggy - the next instalment They are all beautiful to me . Here is big Sam , pure working stock on both sides , he is probably far too big to pass muster with the purists but is a racey lad with a passion for retreiving . He is taller than the average Lab so carries his 38 kilos well, my lovely monster !
