My beautiful chunky choc, Daisy May is 5 and half months, she is doing really well at her training, she is very responsive and looks directly into my eyes for instruction/treat, not at the treat. My concern is that during a training class this morning on the field, it was pointed out to me that she isn’t sitting straight and when she is in a down position she isn’t sitting sphinx-like but favouring one side (sort of relaxed); ‘sloppy’. The trainer thinks she might have a problem with her hips which has really worried me, he suggested that I should get her checked with a vet as the chocs are notorious for having hip problems. I had noticed that sometimes she doesn’t sit straight and in line but isn’t that something that has to be taught to her, once she is s bit older around six months? Or are these warning signs of hip problems? I don’t think that she sits sloppy, she just has her back feet sort of splayed out to the side when training. When she is not working, and sits of her own accord, relaxed, she leans on one hip more than the other, sort of to the side. And when she sits on one of her soft beds she actually sits on the edge with her bottom and lower back resting backwards against the rim of the bed, with her backs legs sticking up (hope that’s clear!). She is a very chilled out lab. Has a beautiful nature and is very responsive when learning new stuff. She loves her bed and sleeps from 10 through to 7. The only time we have any problems is when training at class, when it’s getting near to the end of the hour she just looks at me like no more sitting to heel please I have had enough, so I don’t push her I ask for a couple of hand touches to reward and finish on a positive note. She has learned so much do I now have to start asking her to tidy up her act? Daisy had a puppy check just last week and my vet was very pleased with her, he didn’t mention anything about her hips. I did carefully research responsible breeders and her parents both have extensive health tests, although I am aware that does not prevent the puppies from having hip problems. I set my timer for around 40 mins when we are over the woods (door to door) for playtime, training sessions and off lead experience. I realise this does slightly go over the five minute rule, but don’t allow her to jump or climb anything.
Sloppy sits don’t necessarily equate to bad hips, don’t worry. My choccy also sits so sloppily (I’ll post photos when back on my computer!) and there is no cause for concern with her hips. She’s now 16 months and I will be having her X-rayed soon but have no reason to believe there’s anything wrong. She’s just more comfortable when she sits looking like a ham I have trained a straight sit because I want one for gun dog work; sending your dog on a line when they’re not sitting straight means they’re not going to run straight. If it wasn’t for that, I really wouldn’t bother with it. I think it’s funny
Hi @Jacqui Neil as the owner of a 3.5 yr old choccie girl who likes to 'sit' and 'down' sloppy I wouldn't worry especially as Daisy May only had a health check last week. Many dogs, not just choccie labs have a relaxed sit, just as we do. If you are worried though pop in for a chat with the vet as he can out your mind to rest Tidy sit can be trained, I use a 'sit pretty' cue if I really want it. Perfect you are listening to and reading Daisy May and ensuring you finish on a high note Also I wouldn't worry too much about your exercise duration. It sounds as if you have a good mix of fun activities and training while out. The '5 minute rule' is guidance only and it is unclear as to whether tgat is once a say, twice a day and what it includes . I think many of us use the 5 minute rule as a guide for on lead walking which is hard for puppies as they have to walk at our pace and can't stop when then wish but are more relaxed when they are off lead and free to stop when they wish and chase around when they like.
Thanks Snowbunny, I do plan on having her hips xrayed when I have her spayed, but I also think she looks so cute when sitting lopsided. I would like to teach her to sit straight as I am interested in doing some gundog work with her later, and will look into the training techniques for that I just didn’t want to rush her at the moment, will now try not to worry about her hips but I guess I will talk to my vet next week to put my mind at rest.
Hi Jojo83 thanks so much, I was starting to worry that I might have been exercising her too much, but tbh she attends two puppy classes and on those days I wouldn’t take her out in addition, so probably three times a week, the rest is in the garden. I’m so pleased with her she retrieves her tennis ball comes to find me (as she picked it up so quick I have started hiding while she is running for the ball) and drops it into my hand. I would love to know how you train sit pretty if you don’t mind. Do you think she is a bit too young to start teaching her this yet? Also the trainer has said he wants to see her next week walking on a collar, so I will have to practise this as I have only used her harness so far. She does wear a collar with her ID. Still worrying about her hips though, this is one area that I am so worried about and trainer has started alarm bells ringing for me.
As a puppy we taught Homer to sit on command facing us and the same with a down. We've tried to teach him to sit or be in a down by my side but have never mastered this, he'll sit or lie at an angle so he can see me and he never lies sphinx like but with his legs to one side. There's nothing wrong with his hips just our training.
I'll challenge the brain as to how I did it and get back to you on it. A puppy is never to young to learn something new - age has no bearing on learning. It used to be said that puppy training couldn't start until 6 months of age but that was due to the harsh methods used I know breeders who start some basics when puppies are first vecoming mobile and responsive. It sounds as if you have lots of fun with hide and seek, retrieves and a lovely delivery to hand to boot Did your trainer say why he wants her on a collar? This does concern me a little as she is still very young and if there is any chance that she might pull I wouldn't want her on a collar. Try not to worry (impossible I know when someone has sown seeds of doubt), you saw the vet last week and he showed no concern about hips. Have a chat with your vet though just to put your fears to rest - he is somewhat more experienced and qualified to discuss Daisy May's hips than your trainer.
Yes, there is a chance that she might pull as we are on a field and being a lab if she sees a nice piece of wood or twig she will lunge after it. I was told that she is responsive to me and should now be trained using a collar to encourage her to be closer to heel, sometimes she doesn’t quite sit up tight next to me but at an angle which I am working on, I think this is my error not Daisy’s. I must admit I am not happy about using a collar. I use a Perfect Fit Harness in the comfort of knowing that I am protecting her neck, so I am unsure as to what to do.
Hi Boogie, that is absolutely how Daisy sits relaxed, I’m so glad she is not alone so funny! I love labs. Mollie is beautiful.
Thank you, she’s not mine. I had her ‘till she was 13 months old. She’s now in training to become a Guide Dog. She had her hips scores done because she was a possible Brood bitch but her sister pipped her to the post hip wise. She never sits neatly unless asked to - all is sloppy sloppy! Gypsy, my first pup never, ever did a sloppy sit. Not once
"Yes, there is a chance that she might pull as we are on a field and being a lab if she sees a nice piece of wood or twig she will lunge after it. I was told that she is responsive to me and should now be trained using a collar to encourage her to be closer to heel, sometimes she doesn’t quite sit up tight next to me but at an angle which I am working on, I think this is my error not Daisy’s. I must admit I am not happy about using a collar. I use a Perfect Fit Harness in the comfort of knowing that I am protecting her neck, so I am unsure as to what to do. " @Jacqui Neil stay with the harness. Daisy May is your dog and it is your choice whether you keep her training on harness or not, not the trainer's. You can encourage her to be close at heel on a harness just as you can with a collar.
Beautiful! I will show this to Daisy, she just needs to tidy up her back feet! I love the way they just stare straight into your eyes waiting it’s wondrful.
Thank you for the reassurance sometimes it’s hard to make a decision when you feel like you are questioning a prof trainer’s advice, but as you say Daisy May is my responsibility and yes, I am going to use her harness, i feel this is right for her, considering just how much we have achieved together, her Puppia harness only lasted a month before she outgrew it, we have been training since she was nine weeks in particular her recall. I think the problem is we have been told that there are going to be a series of tests held before we can continue to the next level (up from beginners) working up to field trials, so everyone is doing exactly as asked for fear of failing. She does walk loosely on a lead nicely during training it’s just her sit at heel that’s a bit off. But I am going to keep on with the practising for that. Today off lead she sat by my side I asked for a wait moved a few steps forward without looking at her, moved back in beside her and she never moved until I released her, I was so proud of her even if her sit was a bit ‘sloppy’ .
Oh the sloppy sit! And the sloppy down! At this point they are the bane of my novice training life. @Jojo83 I will also be watching this thread closely to teach a pretty sit. I have been told to walk her next to a wall or couch when I ask for the sit or down and gradually only click and reward for a straight sit and/or down. Also apparently I you can use two roofing gutters and you walk down the middle. @Jacqui Neil we had Harley's hips xrayedwhen she was spayed and her hips are good. And according to our trainer her sloppy sit and downs are spectacular! Sometimes I struggle not to laugh at Harley, it is like she is only missing a chaise lounge to pose on when she does a down. And I think the focus you have from Daisy May is fantastic. We struggle with that too so I am a bit green with envy. Even now I struggle with focussing for an 45 min class and so does Harley so I know what you mean with the look. Harley is now 17 months and I am moving her onto a flat collar for class but if it wasn't for the fact that we took part in a beginner competition the other day and she needed to be in a flat collar I wouldn't have bothered. I still walk her in her harness. It is a front attaching one - she used to hurt me when she lunged or pulled but since I have used this harness it has made the world of difference.
@Jacqui Neil It sounds as if you are doing amazingly with Daisy. As a trainer I wouldn't suggest taking such a young dog off a harness and on to a collar, particularly in what can be a highly distracting environment. I'm usually telling owners to go and buy a harness so we can practice walking with a loose lead. You are also using one of the most highly rated harness' as per a Whole Dog Journal survey.
Thank you so much for your advice - both trainers (separate clubs) disagree with harnesses, but I researched for the best one for Daisy as I do strongly believe in them, especially at such an early age. The fact that I have achieved so much with Daisy using one is encouraging. Something else , my beautiful girl just did a perfect sit while waiting for me to give her the word to go eat her dinner.
With Squidge I just had her sat in front of me and used a treat held slightly above her nose until she shuffled upwards into a tidy sit, then I threw her the biggest party ever. Squidge is hugely motivated by praise - one of the reasons she kept sitting sloppy for so long because I thought it was hilarious so laughed at her, which was very rewarding for her The important thing is that you are very clear that when you cue the sit, you get a straight sit. So for me, when I say "sit", it means "sit straight". If she flops over, she doesn't get a reward and we try again. That first time to get her straight took a while - it felt forever but was probably only around a minute or two, but once she realised what I was after, she kept on doing it. She's a smart little bean I couldn't care less if she sits sloppily on her free time, though. Excuse the mess, the house is a renovation project and very much a work in progress!
Yes, you're right to stick to your guns with what feels right for your puppy, well done you! What you could do is use a double-ended lead which attaches to both the collar and the harness. This would allow you to have the tension on the harness if she pulls, protecting her throat, but you can also be practicing for when she's able to walk on a collar alone. I prefer to walk my dogs on a flat collar than on the harness as I feel more "attached" to them, but I certainly only do this once I am confident they won't pull - harness all the way until then! This is something else for sure - when Squidge is being attentive, she is far more likely to sit straight. So something arousing like her lunch would be more likely to get an automatic straight sit, because it's more efficient (ie faster!) for her to move out of the straight sit than it is out of the sloppy one. So if your pup is good at marking, you could use that for your straight sit at heel. Throw something really interesting to her out in front and then have her sit at heel. If she's focussing on the thing (toy or food) because she wants it, she's more likely to sit straight. Then you can release her to it as her reward.
I will always have Coco on a harness. He walks lovely along side me, but I cannot guarantee he will not lunge (for a cat or to see another dog) - I see no reason to walk him on a collar.
