Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Hello

I was just reading Maisie'smomma's training log. It's absolutely fascinating and thank you for sharing it with us. 8)

I noticed your comments about your first puppy class and was really appalled a trainer would say a puppy had malicious intent. Well, I'm sure you're over that ridiculous statement by now. What a terrible thing to say! It very much mirrors my own first puppy class (which I posted about). We're starting a new one next week and I have to say I'm nervous about it.

In the 2 months that have passed since our disastrous first class, Bonnie and I have bonded so strongly and we pick up on each other's moods very well. So, the last thing I want is for me to approach a new class with trepidation and have the pup pick up on that. I'd love any advice about how we do that. Is there anything I can do to prepare Bonnie for it? We've been practising approaching other dogs calmly and also ignoring them when we're on the lead. I can't say we're particularly good at it yet! ???

As a quick re-cap, I took Bonnie to a class at 16 weeks. She was pretty much the biggest pup in the room. We'd done lots of training ourselves but we'd been thinking about socialisation and hadn't done anything about meeting other dogs calmly. Bonnie got ridiculously stressed out by the new situation - of being restrained from playing and with having to sit still. She became anxious (she has a bit of anxiety anyway) and dehydrated (her eyes went very red, bless her!) and so I asked for water. Having been denied it, we left.

Prior to that she pulled on her lead, wouldn't sit still, and then started barking and yelping with indignation!

This time, we're going to a class run by our region's gun dog representative so I'm hoping the trainer will be used to Labrador pups. We couldn't get into the puppy class so the trainer recommended the junior class where the exercises are the same but the dogs can be anything from 16 weeks to adult. At least we won't have the situation of worrying the other puppies which the trainer (also) accused us of at our first class.

Obviously Bon's a lot calmer than she was at 16 weeks and she knows her commands much better. But even so she's still bloomin' hyper around other dogs. : Today I had her sit and wait while I talked to another dog owner (whose rescue dog didn't want to play anyway). She wasn't too bad. Sat for a few moments - pulled - "sit command" "wait command" - sat for a few moments - pulled - "sit command" "wait command" etc etc. I had chicken in my pocket and rewarded for the initial sit but I'm never sure if I should be rewarding for the initial sit or whether I should reward after she's waited for a while...?

Anyway, my main thing is, how can I prepare Bonnie (and me!!) for class #1 !!!

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Well done on diving into the world of group classes again It's a good opportunity to proof your training in a distracting environment.

For a first class I'd keep my goals achievable - like being able to get my dog's attention. That in itself would be something to be very pleased about. I'd also be aiming to learn as much as I could about the trainer's approach so you can decide if the class suits you. If the class doesn't suit, then you don't need to go again. It's totally up to you A good trainer will make everyone in the class feel included, regardless of the level that their dog is at.

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Thanks Rachael! And what good advice about keeping our expectations in check. Concentrating on Bonnie being focused on me is excellent advice as it will reinforce what we've been doing with ignoring other dogs whilst on the lead.

It's good (and reassuring) to hear what you say about ensuring the trainer is the right one for us.

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=Bonnie link=topic=10456.msg154259#msg154259 date=1428144676]
Sat for a few moments - pulled - "sit command" "wait command" - sat for a few moments - pulled - "sit command" "wait command" etc etc. I had chicken in my pocket and rewarded for the initial sit but I'm never sure if I should be rewarding for the initial sit or whether I should reward after she's waited for a while...?
[/quote]

I think there are two different points here. 1) what should you do with a dog who can't sit still around other dogs 2) what to reward when teaching a long duration sit or wait.

On 1) - I park my dog, I do not give him a sit/wait cue in a situation where he can't sit and wait. I stand on his lead, far enough away from other dogs so he can't be rewarded for getting to them, and then I ignore him. I don't tell him sit, or wait, I don't give him treats, I don't give him attention. I just ignore him. Eventually, he'll settle down and then he gets rewarded by us continuing to do things. He is starting to think now "oh, she's stood on the lead, might as well lie down, nothing interesting will happen".

On 2) I reward the release. I ask for a sit/wait, duration, and reward on "release".

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

When I did puppy classes I took cheese and sausages. I smeared bits of cheese around and just inside a Kong which kept her attention whilst the trainer was talking (and she talked loads!). I also used it foe keeping her occupied when each dog was demonstrating their learning. By the 4th class, I didn't use half as much cheese and she learned to sit quietly and watch for longer periods

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=10456.msg154316#msg154316 date=1428156082]
[quote author=Bonnie link=topic=10456.msg154259#msg154259 date=1428144676]
Sat for a few moments - pulled - "sit command" "wait command" - sat for a few moments - pulled - "sit command" "wait command" etc etc. I had chicken in my pocket and rewarded for the initial sit but I'm never sure if I should be rewarding for the initial sit or whether I should reward after she's waited for a while...?
[/quote]

I think there are two different points here. 1) what should you do with a dog who can't sit still around other dogs 2) what to reward when teaching a long duration sit or wait.

On 1) - I park my dog, I do not give him a sit/wait cue in a situation where he can't sit and wait.

I stand on his lead, far enough away from other dogs so he can't be rewarded for getting to them, and then I ignore him. I don't tell him sit, or wait, I don't give him treats, I don't give him attention. I just ignore him. Eventually, he'll settle down and then he gets rewarded by us continuing to do things. He is starting to think now "oh, she's stood on the lead, might as well lie down, nothing interesting will happen".

On 2) I reward the release. I ask for a sit/wait, duration, and reward on "release".

[/quote]

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=Naya link=topic=10456.msg154360#msg154360 date=1428168016]
When I did puppy classes I took cheese and sausages. I smeared bits of cheese around and just inside a Kong which kept her attention whilst the trainer was talking (and she talked loads!). I also used it foe keeping her occupied when each dog was demonstrating their learning. By the 4th class, I didn't use half as much cheese and she learned to sit quietly and watch for longer periods
[/quote]

Ahhh, I'd not thought of bringing one of the kongs! Excellent plan! thank you.

I hope our trainer doesn't talk for longer than.... oh.... 20 seconds!

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=Bonnie link=topic=10456.msg154373#msg154373 date=1428172693]
I read this earlier and thought, 'Bonnie would do a mischief to herself if we tried this.' BUT we did, just now during our evening walk, and it worked a treat. Got the lead wrapped round my ankles a few times before she'd lain down but a small price to pay! Bonnie is now a dog who can be parked! [/quote]

It's a great technique. I put a knot in all my leads (apart from my single posh leather one which I almost never use : ;D ) at the length where Charlie can stand and hold his head in a natural position but nothing else - and I can now get my foot at the side of that knot in a microsecond.

Do it lots. On every walk, several times. Park your dog. Never take your foot off that lead while they are messing about, and never allow them any rewards unless they are settled and then the reward is the foot comes off the lead for fun stuff. If you do it enough, it becomes an instant settle cue you can use anywhere.

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

My Lab is so strong, there is no way I could park him with the lead under my foot, but I wish!

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Charlie is 30kg of well muscled hooligan that has pulled me over numerous times - but once I'm stood with both feet on his lead, and he has no more than 24 inches of lead (he is 22.5 inches high, so can't build up any momentum behind a lunge), and there is a knot in the lead so it can't slip under my shoes, and the lead leads up to my hand....it's pretty difficult for him to do anything.

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Mine are muscled 30kg so if you can do it, then I should be able to do so! Will practice with knotted lead at correct dimensions

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=10456.msg154380#msg154380 date=1428173442]
and I can now get my foot at the side of that knot in a microsecond.


[/quote]

Lab owner ninja move! ;D Great suggestion as is taking a kong along to a training class x

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

We are also starting a new class next week. Max is always completely overstimulated when we first enter a class (somewhere new and strange dogs) and tends to try and jump and pulls on his lead. Once we start doing the exercises he settles down and ignores the other dogs.I'm planning on taking super high value treats to just get us through the first 10 minutes before the class starts. I'll do lots of Look at me" commands and reward, reward, reward. I can then downgrade to chicken, hotdog etc when he's calmer!! Good luck!

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Hi Tomal

So what would you term a high value reward? I thought chicken was!!! And... now you've got me thinking... if one does take high value rewards, will the other dogs not all congregate round?

That actually sometimes happens with us when we're out and about : In fact, it came in really useful when a persistent pit bull wouldn't leave Bonnie alone (threw a bag of chicken at him and scarpered!!!)

xP

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Yeah, Tomal, if you're downgrading to chicken what are you using for the good stuff? ;D

In a class the other dogs should be on lead. If they do want to pay more attention to you than to their handlers then that is just the other handlers' bad luck Some people will bring very boring treats the first week, or no treats, or too few treats. They generally don't make the same mistake in week 2. You, on the other hand, are fully prepared on the treat front!

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Max is very spoilt on the treat front. Chicken and hotdog are high value for him but I tend to use them most days for recall and loose lead training as these are the two major training issues for Max. I wanted something different so I've been looking at dried sprats on Amazon as fishy things really make him sit up and take notice! I already use the occasional sachet of cat food as a super high value jackpot but I think I'd get strange looks turning up to a class squeezing catfood into his mouth!!

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Oh good, I was starting to think chicken wasn't high value enough! I'm a veggie and so I'm not great about the idea of raw liver etc... Funny, I was looking at cat food today and thinking, "... I wonder...."

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

Supermarket chicken is not high value for Charlie. : Home roasted chicken is MUCH higher value....but still waaaay down the list which has fishy stuff - sardines, prawns etc. - towards the top....

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=Oberon link=topic=10456.msg154626#msg154626 date=1428265788]Some people will bring very boring treats the first week, or no treats, or too few treats. They generally don't make the same mistake in week 2. You, on the other hand, are fully prepared on the treat front!
[/quote]

I'm imagining that for a three hour one-on-one with Helen Phillips and two dogs, I may need to take a suitcase full of treats!! ;D ;D ;D

 

Re: Starting a new training class next week - feeling wary!

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=10456.msg154643#msg154643 date=1428269433]
Supermarket chicken is not high value for Charlie. : Home roasted chicken is MUCH higher value....but still waaaay down the list which has fishy stuff - sardines, prawns etc. - towards the top....
[/quote]

We had our first sardine yesterday. We're a big fan! Eggs... bizarrely, not so much.

[quote author=Oberon link=topic=10456.msg154626#msg154626 date=1428265788]

In a class the other dogs should be on lead. If they do want to pay more attention to you than to their handlers then that is just the other handlers' bad luck Some people will bring very boring treats the first week, or no treats, or too few treats. They generally don't make the same mistake in week 2. You, on the other hand, are fully prepared on the treat front!
[/quote]

Ah-ha! We'll be top of the class then!! ;D ;D ;D ..... :