Please tell me if this is normal or not. Yesterday I plucked up my courage and gave Poppy a raw chicken wing. To my horror she swallowed it whole (and it was not small!), choked it up, chomped it once or twice, swallowed it down again, choked it back up again, did another chomp or two and then swallowed it whole again. She does not seem to be suffering any ill effects. Indeed, she celebrated by leaping into my garden wildlife pond (twice), then charged up the garden and into the house, scattering green pond slime, muddy water, and pond invertebrates everywhere... Any suggestions? Is this normal and ok for a young dog (almost 5 months), or should I rethink the chicken wings? Also - how am I going to keep her out of my pond now??? I caught her in it again in the afternoon, and gave her a royal telling off, but she just but-tucked and charged around the garden wildly (which seems to be her way of deflecting our anger if we tell her off :). Oh yes, I almost forgot - she has always been a bit of a poo eater, but over the last few days this seems to be getting worse. She eats her own poo, and that of our other dog if she can find it, but thank goodness seems to leave strange dogs' poo alone. So far. Of course I clear up anything in the garden immediately, but on a walk she will remember where she or Bones did their business last time and hoover it up, if I am not intensely vigilant!! My nerves have taken a bit of a pounding this weekend (and Sunday was on my birthday!! ) Any comments or suggestions would be gratefully received!
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Hi Karen, I don't know much about starting puppies on raw - I've only had two dogs on raw and both were already eating raw when I took them on. However I do know my spaniel pup used to bring food back up for a second chew quite often (resulting in him being restricted to the kitchen for some time after each meal!) and I was told this was quite normal. You might find that a raw diet helps with the poo eating too, as they do seem less interested in raw fed poo, which is basically just powdered bone, instead of yummy part digested kibble! I hope that's reassuring. I'm sure a more experienced raw feeder than me will be able to help more! Sam
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Hi Karen Happy Birthday! My three and a half month puppy now chomps a couple of times on each chicken wing and then swallows it whole. All my older dogs do the same. So yes, this is fairly normal! If a little scarey! When she was even smaller, I used to get a hammer, and smash the bigger bone inside the 'arm' part of the wing. But now I just leave her to it. Keeping the puppy out of the pond is a tricky one. You are on a hiding to nothing if you are hoping to teach her not to go in the pond when you are not watching her. You need to decide if you want to a) Fence your pond b)Fence the puppy in c) Stop worrying about whether she is in or out of the pond. Poo eating is very common, and may diminish if you switch fully to a raw diet (as Sam says, powdered bone is just not that yummy) There is an article about it here Hope that helps Pippa
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Thanks for that Pippa. That is very helpful and reassuring about the chicken wings! I have also now separated her from the other dog when feeding, so she doesnt feel she has to bolt it quite so quickly. The pond ... Yes, it is very important to me that she keeps out of it, as it is a little wildlife haven, with frogs, dragonflies, toads and grass snakes! So at the moment she is not allowed to be out in the garden on her own - luckily we can block off the front part of the garden so she can be out there and not be able to get in the pond. I managed to train the old dogs not to get in the pond, so I just have to believe I can train her not to do it, too! Thank you for the link to the poo eating article. It is a tricky one... Quite disgusting to a human! I am working on the 'leave it!' command, with a small treat if she does indeed leave the offending article and come to me instead. And thank you for the birthday wishes!
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Quick update - two weeks into the raw feeding and the pup seems to be doing very well. She looks quite slim, and obviously thoroughly enjoys her chicken backs and wings, raw meaty bones, etc. And the fantastic, wonderful news is that she really has slowed down with the poo eating!! Dont know if this is because she feels more satisfied with the new diet - but partly I think because her own poo is now much smaller and harder and less attractive. To her, I mean! Also - fingers crossed she hasnt been in the pond again. But it's supposed to be a very hot weekend here (over 30 degrees!!!), so I'll have to get her paddling pool out and keep a close eye on her. She is such a fast, quick little thing. We went for a walk yesterday with a two-year old Labrador female, and she ran rings around the older dog! She is quite feisty though, and did a lot of biting and agressive playing with her hackles up. The older dog just tolerated this behaviour, but it did get a bit over the top so I made her stop and walk to heel for a while instead. After that, she behaved much better, so I am hoping we can cultivate this 'friendship'.
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Glad the raw feeding is going well
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Time for an update. I see it is six and a half weeks since I started the raw feeding, and it is going very well! I just have a question - are there any guidelines about how much you should be feeding a puppy? It is so easy with the kibble - you just read it off the packet... Poppy is six months old, and I give her a pack of frozen chicken backs (500g) per day, with carrots, spinach or whatever other veggies are available. I dont give her any carbs in the form of rice or bread, and except for the odd little treat (for training purposes) when out walking, that's it really. Oh, and sometimes she licks out the older dog's bowl, but I do stop her stealing his food. I also give her a 'chewy' treat or dog biscuit when I leave her in the crate. She is looking quite 'chunky', but her rate of weight gain has slowed down to between half and quarter of a kilo a week. She isnt very big, and weighs 20.5 kilos. So my question is - do you think 500g of chicken wings and backs a day is a reasonable amount for a six month pup??? Or am I giving her too much? It doesnt look like a lot in the bowl... The other dog is on commercial dog food, and he eats LOTS more.
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues People are often worried when feeding a raw diet, that they are not feeding enough quantity. In my experience quantity is rarely a problem. Variety is more likely to be a concern. It is very difficult to be specific about quantities because every dog or puppy is different and the very best guide to whether your dog is getting enough calories, is the way he looks and feels. Raw food is almost completely utilised by the dog and a dog fed on kibble has to eat a lot more because so much of it is fillers. I have never weighed anything Rachael eats (she is four and a half months old) and I never weigh her. If she looks a bit rangey she gets more food for a few days. But here is an example of a couple of day's food which might help Day 1. Breakfast a large whole mackerel Lunch two eggs Supper one large chicken back Day 2. Breakfast large pollock Supper half a rabbit Some days she has lunch, other days she doesn't. A kibble fed pup this age would need three meals a day, but on raw, the food is more concentrated so a couple of meals may be sufficient, depending on the dog. I give Rachael a lunch of egg, fish or scraps maybe three times a week. Rachael eats a lot of fish. She also has tripe, deer's lungs, ribs and heart, and some meat and veg scraps. But no cereal at all. You can see she is probably getting more than your pup, but she is on the 'slim' side and still growing very fast, whereas at six months, growth is slowing right down. Because chicken is readily available, a lot of people rely extensively on it for raw feeding but I personally feel it really is important with a still growing pup to give as much variety as you can. That way you make sure they get a range of nutrients. Fish are great because you can feed them whole and they get to eat skin, eyes etc. If you feed green tripe a couple of times a week, you don't need to worry about liquidising vegetables for them. Try not to worry about quantity. My feeling is, we don't weigh our kids' food and we don't need to weigh our puppys'. Give plenty, and if the pup looks a little tubby, cut back. You can't go wrong. It takes time to get too thin or too fat at six months old. You would notice long before she came to any harm. Trust your judgement. It is no different from feeding your own family. You will know what to do. Hope that helps Pippa
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Thanks a lot, it's really great to get some good feedback like this, as the only one of my 'doggy friends' who raw feeds her dog is a novice too! I have been giving the pup meaty bones and eggs instead of chicken some days, but will now go ahead and add fish to the diet for the variety, and check with my friendly butcher what else he can offer. I do feel you get really excellent support and advice on this forum, and I especially like the fact that it is not too big, so you get the feeling you start to know the other members. Big thumbs up from me. ;D
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Soooo... Not a great weekend, I'm afraid... Nerves have taken a battering again. I gave her a mackerel on Saturday. She didnt like it, but ate it eventually. Sunday morning I heard the dreaded little noise - 'Hyeeeeenhhhhnnn, I did a poop in my bed......' - and it was not just a poop but a VOLCANIC POOPSPLOSION!!!! Let her out down the garden while clearing up the terrible mess. Just as I'd finished, up came the little princess, covered in fox poo that she'd rolled in!!! AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!! Up to the bathroom and out with the doggie shampoo. (Me still in my dressing gown...) Because of the diarrhoea poor Poppy got no breakfast (waiting for her tummy to calm down), so what with that and the bath she was not a happy little poppet. But she recovered her spirits by the afternoon, and we went for a walk with her, Bones and another Labrador. Suddenly all three of them dived into the woods, and would not come back; this is the first time it has happened with Poppy, and Bones NEVER runs away, so I was a bit concerned. Finally, after much searching, we found all three of them with their heads in the guts of a long-dead deer... AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH again, and another bath. We were all a bit shattered by the day's events, and spent the evening cuddled up on the couch watching Downton Abbey. Then I set my alarm for 3 am to let them out to prevent a recurrence of the pooperama. 8) Feeling a bit exhausted this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues argh Karen nightmare! I feel for you
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Oh poor you. With new foods it is a good idea to introduce a tiny bit at a time. I'm sorry I feel I should have mentioned that. I literally give a little cube of the new food on the first day, and gradually increase. New food in quantity often causes diahorrea. Don't let it put you off trying again in the future. Pippa
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Oh dear Karen, I feel your pain , poor you and Poppy too, dont they just love the most gross things ? yesterday in the woods, I saw Flynn eating something white and huge, fearing it was a mushroom I ran and tried to prise it out of his mouth, it was a massive lump of rank cheese that some idle person had thrown behind the picnice bench rather than put it in the litter bin in the car park . Result was projectile poo , never seen anything like it : : Thank goodness for Prokolin , never without a tube in the fridge : Hope Poppy is better now .
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Oh goodness Pippa, it's not your fault, I should have thought myself of just giving her a little bit instead of the whole fish!! :-[ Yes, next time I shall just give her a little bit to start with. Thank you too Kate and Carole for your sympathy, I know we have all been there... Anyway, I feel you have to keep a sense of humour about these things. Otherwise we probably wouldnt keep dogs at all!
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues behind the picnice bench[/quote] or in this case pic - not nice!
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues [quote author=caroleb link=topic=665.msg3821#msg3821 date=1348490043] behind the picnice bench[/quote] or in this case pic - not nice! [/quote] Sometimes these typos are so apt : :
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Quick question on the raw food topic...I've looked about the site in hope it had already been answered but it seems its either I keep missing it or its not there. McQueen was born on the 7th nov...When is it safe to be starting him on raw food and what types as a start...Apologies if this has already been posted. He is now exactly 3 kilos...
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues If you haven't fed a dog on raw food before, then I would wait for a while. It's not for the faint hearted at first! Probably best to continue him on his regular puppy food until he is at least around six months old. Surely he can't just weigh 3 kilos? That sounds absolutely tiny... And I have just realized he is only seven weeks old! That is very, very young - so you got him when he was six weeks old? Goodness, that is much younger than most puppies go away from their mothers. No wonder he isn't toilet trained yet. I'm not blaming you, because I know this is your first dog, but you have a very small and young puppy on your hands, and you will need to read up a bit on looking after tiny pups. There's a lot of info on this site, and you'll get a lot of help and advice, too.
Re: Starting feeding raw food - puppy bolts her food and other issues Thanks for the reply Karen and yes he is very young. After reading up in fact way too young to be away from its mother but, hey they were keen to get him off their hands so ... nothing I can do about that I'm afraid ... now, in terms of him being tiny, well yes he is ..heheh and extremely light too...I have in fact support in terms of what to do with the local vet he seems pretty adamant in terms of food etc. I never really asked him about raw food, in fact never really thought about it myself. House training is hell...you got that right LOL
