I was wondering.... People say things like "s/he is still a young dog, so easy to train..." and so on. And we know teaching "come" to a little fun party animal that is a 12 week puppy is a doddle, and then they get inconveniently independent and start legging it happily across the beach on their own sometime after 6 months... But when/why/how does it get any harder after that? Does it really get harder to train an older dog, or is it just the case that bad habits get more deeply ingrained with time? For example, when would you expect a gundog to be fully trained? I know training doesn't ever stop, as such, but are there really any cut offs when the opportunity to train effectively has been missed?
Re: Teach an old dog... It is much harder Julie, but it can be done ( well almost all the time ) . I`ve rescued older dogs and found that rather than try to correct , take them back to basics and treat as a puppy Its much harder when a dog comes with no history , as Millie did and there are some bad habits that are so deeply rooted that it might not be possible to ever train them out, but on the whole, yes, I do think that you can teach an old dog new tricks
Re: Teach an old dog... I can definitely see that, say, sit instead of rushing to the door would be harder to teach to a dog that has been allowed to rush to the door for 5 years, instead of a year - I guess, anyway...that's the bad habit thing. But is it really harder to teach a new skill to an older dog? Say a send away? If you had two dogs that had never be trained for a send away at all, would it be any harder to train a 6 year old than a 1 year old?
Re: Teach an old dog... No , I dont think so . With Millie , she bonded to me very quickly and was therefore eager to please, possibly even more eager than a puppy would be as she desperately wanted to fit in . I have taught her to retrieve just like Sam , and she will actively seek out the ball/dummy , not quite so good at handing over, but its a work in progress involving lots of treats and praise I`m pretty sure that this is a new thing for her , she hadnt got a clue about toys/balls/dummies when she came to us , its taken almost a year but she loves it and will squeak with excitement at the sight of a throwing object ( another work in progress ) . I guess that Sams retrieving is to an extent, in his blood, but she has been pretty easy to teach , for a terrier
Re: Teach an old dog... I think dogs get in the habit of learning too and that could be a possible barrier for an older dog....you're effectively teaching two things. One to learn and two the skill itself. Your comment about dogs more used to clicker training made me think of this.
Re: Teach an old dog... Great thread Julie!I think it depends what you want to train,bad habits must be harder to extinguish / re train than a new skill? In my case ,I hope you can train an older dog....my time is running on : I make mistakes and don't consolidate/ 'proof' properly but I just keep plugging away....in the hope consistency over time will create success.So things that I've started with my young dog will manifest as success in my older dog. Ie.Using your example of rushing to the door...at the 5-7 months stage we used to practice,practice,practice....Chris,I and my cleaner,clicker,treats,a proper training excercise and we got good at that scenario.Random callers have been much more of a challenge,life kind of gets in the way of you being able to follow through your training eg not everyone has the patience to put up with you trying to settle your dog before you let them in ;D So I've tried to keep to a consistent drill,ie if I was alone he would have to be put behind the child gate,if I had another pair of hands he would be told to go on his bed.The other day at 20 Months old my doorbell went ,Dexter got up from being asleep beside me and went and lay on his bed.....and stayed there when he heard voices......he's still a young dog......but the 'older' version of him has learned what is expected from foundations laid when he was younger. I think when you have exposed your dog to a positive training methods all their life and made sure that they understand the clicker....that will always create an understanding that it's time to train and to learn when they see it.Dexter can be in the biggest slumber ever but bang he's right behind me for some activity when he sees me get the clicker out.We aren't setting the world alight with out training but I hope I can continue to learn with him for a good while to come. I'll be really interested to see the replies from members that have had older dogs .....
Re: Teach an old dog... I firmly believe you can teach an older dog new things. In the last 9 months I have successfully trained Hattie who is nearly 7 years old, the recall whistle and a quite successful stop whistle and from prey, but the rushing barking at the door is still a work in progress but is getting better : When we rescued Charlie he hadn't a clue about how to play with toys, us or Hattie and he didn't even wagg his tail when he came to us he just ran around like a maniac , but we have trained all kinds of things which I believe he has gained confidence and trust from. The bad habits have obviously been very, very difficult to sort out and are still ongoing and probably always will be thanks to his previous owners It's never too late to teach an old dog new things and the only barriers are inconsistent or bad owners xx
Re: Teach an old dog... [quote author=bbrown link=topic=6427.msg85379#msg85379 date=1401953954] I think dogs get in the habit of learning too and that could be a possible barrier for an older dog....you're effectively teaching two things. One to learn and two the skill itself. [/quote] This is what I was going to say too
Re: Teach an old dog... I agree you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. I think the problem is untraining old tricks in other words bad habits as has been said. The oldest dog in the family is 8 now and I get cross when my cousin or my auntie (who looks after Ralph during the day) say he's too old when I suggest they try something new with him. Ralph was about two when my cousin got him. He had a few problem and was horrendous on a lead. He now walks perfectly on lead. However in my opinion Ralph could have been trained to do things like agility. Unfortunately my cousin hasn't the time, inclination or patience. . Ralph has never been overly interested in retrieving because he wouldn't retrieve they assumed he wasn't clever and so couldn't learn anything. I've bitten my tongue a few times. On the plus side he did end up with a lovely caring home with lots of space and doggy friends to play in. I can still get Ralph to do new things even at 8 but I only have him for an hour 5 days a week with the other dogs so what I can do with him is limited especially as it isn't continued when I'm not there. I think perhaps an older dog needs a bit more time and practise to pick up something new.
Re: Teach an old dog... Is there an optimum time for training a dog? I believe that Guide Dog training does not start until the dog is 1 year old (please correct me if I'm wrong). Would puppy walkers have taught them basic stuff like sit, come, lead walking etc? Do you change your method as they get older? Struggling with 8 month old Molly at the moment who seems to have gone backwards. I think it's the teenage thing, so we've gone back to very basic stuff.
Re: Teach an old dog... I think it's pretty normal to go backwards at that age Tina....I remember reading that it's about the time that owners naturally relax a bit with training as the basics are usually on place so you can get a little comfortable when there is still a way to go to proof the training.The dogs are getting more confident and starting to flex their muscle a bit!I went back to obedience classes at this stage and started doing Total Recall with the whistle as I felt like Dexter had left the building and tuned me out! I'm not sure what would be the answer to an Optimum age.I guess there are stages/ ages that can guide certain training skills like the window you have for the most effective socialization.....or maybe approaching Agility cautiously before 12 months because of the jumping x
Re: Teach an old dog... I've recently trained meg to sit and wait for me to put the lead on if she spots people in the distance when we're down the park. Had to do something as she's gone completely deaf and doesn't respond to whistle. At 14, it didn't take long to train her, she's always been a dog that likes to please. So yes I do believe you can teach an older dog new things.
Re: Teach an old dog... [quote author=lablover link=topic=6427.msg85466#msg85466 date=1401968708] I've recently trained meg to sit and wait for me to put the lead on if she spots people in the distance when we're down the park. Had to do something as she's gone completely deaf and doesn't respond to whistle. At 14, it didn't take long to train her, she's always been a dog that likes to please. So yes I do believe you can teach an older dog new things. [/quote] Ah bless her! *hugs*
Re: Teach an old dog... [quote author=lablover link=topic=6427.msg85466#msg85466 date=1401968708] I've recently trained meg to sit and wait for me to put the lead on if she spots people in the distance when we're down the park. Had to do something as she's gone completely deaf and doesn't respond to whistle. At 14, it didn't take long to train her, she's always been a dog that likes to please. So yes I do believe you can teach an older dog new things. [/quote] Ah Jen ,I love she's with you x
Re: Teach an old dog... Good thread, Julie. Our biggest challenge was a five year old German Shepherd who knew nothing except to be appear aggressive (his history was being tied up in a scrapyard), took a long time but he responded well to love, kindness, patience and he loved his training time. He just loved trying to please. He went with me (eventually) when I instructed at basic training classes (a long time ago) and was the model dog! Lots of time was spent training out his bad habits but substituting them for good ones. My only failure with him was his intense dislike for cats and very small dogs but he adored very young children! So - a definite 'yes'
Re: Teach an old dog... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=6427.msg85366#msg85366 date=1401952195] For example, when would you expect a gundog to be fully trained? I know training doesn't ever stop, as such, but are there really any cut offs when the opportunity to train effectively has been missed? [/quote] It would greatly depend on how ingrained some habits have become. If the dog has had a lot of time and opportunities to practise certain behaviours then it would always be an uphill struggle with lots of set backs. Take Murffi for example, I have taught him to retrieve as well as I possibly could given his history and circumstances but he is never going to make a brilliant picking up dog. His forte is hunting so I have made the best of that and turned him into a very good beating dog. But he is not the complete package like Caddie is for example.
Re: Teach an old dog... All very interesting, thanks very much for the replies. [quote author=Dexter link=topic=6427.msg85385#msg85385 date=1401954562] In my case ,I hope you can train an older dog....my time is running on : [/quote] Ah, Angela. Dex is not yet 2, and isn't learning loads of bad habits, you're just working through it all. I don't think you need worry. (Although, of course, I do too - Charlie has had no training for half his life now!).
Re: Teach an old dog... It is interesting! Simba was 1 when we got him, so still young. But I do see what Barb said, that he had to learn how to learn, first. I see that light going on in him, kind of a gradual dawning. Quite fascinating, actually!
